2023 Swammy Awards: Top 10 Swims Of The Year

To see all of our 2023 Swammy Awards, click here.

We’re about to end another year of incredible swimming, which included supersuited world records being taken down, comeback performances, and utter dominance. To honor these swims, we compiled a ranked list of what we thought were the top ten swims of 2023.

It’s important to note that this list isn’t just supposed to serve as a list of world records broken this year ranked by how impressive they were. A variety of objective and subjective factors went into these rankings, such as the overall quality of the swim, where the swim took place, the context of the swim, the level of competition involved, and the significance of the record that the swim broke (if it was a world record).

Honorable Mentions:

  • Kaylee McKeown (AUS) — Women’s 50 (26.86)/100 (57.33)/200 backstroke (2:03.14), LCM: Each of the backstroke world records that McKeown broke (the 50/100 backs at the World Aquatics World Cup stop in Budapest, and the 200 back at the NSW State Open Championships) were by a small margin and didn’t hold the same weight as many of the other world records broken this year, but what’s a bigger deal is the fact that she’s one of just three swimmers who have been fastest of all-time in all three distances of a stroke in long course at once.
  • Leon Marchand (FRA) – Men’s 400 IM (3:28.82), SCY: Marchand’s record-breaking swim at the World Championships in the 400 meter IM was obviously the highlight of his year. But what he did in yards was likewise on another plane. He took four seconds off Hugo Gonzalez’s US Open Record in a year. That’s 1 full second per 100. In a year. After breaking a record that previously had stood for 5.
  • Ruta Meilutyte (LTU) — Women’s 50 breaststroke (29.16), LCM: Meilutyte reclaimed a world record that she had first broken in 2013, but then was taken down by Lilly King and Benedetta Pilato afterward. While setting this record at the 2023 World Championships, she beat King and Pilato and had a 0.78-second margin of victory, which is the biggest ever for a women’s 50-meter event.
  • Australia — Women’s 4×200 Freestyle Relay (7:37.5), LCM: The relay consisting of all St. Peter’s Western members (Mollie O’Callaghan, Brianna Throsell, Shayna Jack, Ariarne Titmus) was utterly dominant at the 2023 World Championships, crushing the field by nearly four seconds and beating their previous world record by nearly two. Titmus, the relay’s anchor, produced the fastest 200 free split of all-time (1:52.41)
  • Daniel Wiffen (IRL), Men’s 800 Freestyle (7:20.46), SCM: Wiffen didn’t only break Grant Hackett‘s world record time of 7:23.42 which had lasted since 2008, but he smashed it by nearly three seconds at the 2023 European Short Course Championships. What makes his achievement even more impressive is that no other swimmer in the past had come within two seconds of Hackett.
  • Kliment Kolesnikov (RUS), Men’s 50 Backstroke (23.55), LCM: At the 2023 Swimming Cup of Russia, Kolesnikov reclaimed his 50 back world record, taking 0.16 seconds off of Hunter Armstrong‘s old mark of 23.71. He was also considerably faster than Armstrong’s 24.05 which won at the World Championships.
  • Luca Mijatovic (USA), Boys’ 1650 Yard Free (14:45.79), SCY: Of all the talented young American (boys especially) hurtling toward the Los Angeles 2028 Olympics, Mijatovic stands out. His 1650 free would have placed 11th at the NCAA Championships, and he’s only 14

10. Qin Haiyang, Men’s 200 Breaststroke (2:05.48, LCM) — 2023 World Championships

In the final of the 200 breast at the 2023 World Championships, Qin tore down Zac Stubblety-Cook‘s world record of 2:05.95 by 0.47 seconds. Simultaneously, he also beat him head-to-head in the same race by nearly a second. With his win, Qin became the first swimmer to sweep the 50, 100, and 200-meter races of a stroke at the World Championships and the second swimmer to get under the 2:06 barrier in the men’s 200 breast.

9. Australia, Women’s 4×100 Freestyle Relay (3:27.96, LCM) — 2023 World Championships

Even though the Aussies smashed their old world record time (3:29.69) by nearly two seconds, the time they put up seemed tangible many years ago. The past few times that the Aussies broke this world record, there were always at least one or two legs that performed slower than what they were capable of But this year, the likes of Mollie O’Callaghan, Shayna Jack, Meg Harris, and Emma McKeon came together to show what their nation was truly capable of in this relay.

The Aussies averaged a bonkers split time of 51.99 across their four swimmers, and the fact that Harris’s 52.29 split was the SLOWEST on the relay is ridiculous (especially considering that it was only 0.01 of a second slower than Kate Douglass‘s split, which was the fastest on Team USA’s silver medaling team).

8. Evgeniia Chikunova (RUS), Women’s 200 Breaststroke (2:17.55, LCM) — 2023 Russian Spring Championships

Then 18-year-old Evegeniia Chikunova put on a show this spring, smashing Tatjana Schoenmaker‘s previous world record time (2:18.95) by 1.4 seconds to become the first woman to break 2:18 in the 200 breast. She had a ridiculous back half in her swim, outsplitting Schoenmaker by 1.39 seconds on the final 50 meters of her race.

Chikunova, as a Russian, was not eligible to compete at the 2023 World Championships. However, her world record time was notably faster than Schoenmaker’s winning time by a considerable margin, which goes to show just how dominant she has become.

7. Sarah Sjostrom (SWE), Women’s 50 Freestyle (23.61 LCM) — 2023 World Championships

Sarah Sjostrom broke her first world record in 2009 when she was just 15 years old. She broke her most recent world record 14 years later at age 29, which is the longest that any swimmer has gone between breaking their first and most recent world record. Her time of 23.61 in the semi-finals of the 50 free at Worlds was 0.06 seconds faster than her previous world record set back in 2017.

In the finals, Sjostrom was just 0.01 seconds slower, but she still won by a margin of 0.48 seconds. Even in the later stages of her career, she is still as dominant as ever, which goes to show the extent of her incredible longevity.

6. Cameron McEvoy (AUS), Men’s 50 Freestyle (21.06 LCM) — 2023 World Championships

McEvoy’s swim is already objectively impressive on its own, as it made him the fourth-fastest 50 free performer of all-time and the second-fastest in textile. In addition, he won the 50 free final by 0.51 seconds, which is the largest margin of victory ever in a men’s 50-meter event at the World Championships.

However, the ranking of McEvoy’s swim is largely held up by the story behind it, as well as its’ emotional weight. Before this year, McEvoy had never won an individual medal at Worlds or the Olympics. He was heavily favored to win the 100 free at the 2016 Olympics after posting a 47.04 at Australian trials, which was at that time the fastest time ever clocked in a textile suit. However, he added over a second and came in seventh, even though his best time would have won the event by half a second. Up until Worlds this year, he had not touched any of his best times from 2016 and stopped competing altogether in 2022. However, this year, he stepped up when it mattered the most and picked up the gold medal that had escaped him all those years ago.

McEvoy’s 50 free swim was a big reason why SwimSwam awarded him the “2023 Comeback Swimmer of the Year” award, and why he’s ranked this high on our top swims list.

5. Ahmed Hafnaoui (TUN)/Bobby Finke (USA), Men’s 1500 Freestyle (14:31.54/14:31.59, LCM)  — 2023 World Championships

We’re in a golden era of men’s distance swimming, and the 1500 free at the 2023 World Championships most perfectly exemplified that. Gold and silver medalists Ahmed Hafnaoui and Bobby Finke were separated by just a mere 0.05 seconds, a margin of victory that is extremely rare in pool swimming’s longest event. The two swimmers split their races almost identically, first trailing Australia’s Sam Short and then passing him after 1050 meters. In the end, Hafnaoui went 14:31.54 while Finke went 14:31.59, producing the second and third-fastest times in history and the first two performances to go under 14:32 since Sun Yang set his world record (14:31.02) in 2012.

Out of all the races on our list, this race was the only one that was primarily elevated by the actual competition going on in the race, and not just the storyline or time of the winning.

4. Summer McIntosh (CAN), Women’s 400 Individual Medley (4:25.87, LCM) — 2023 Canadian Nationals

Katinka Hosszu‘s 400 IM world record (4:26.36) was once one of the most daunting world records in the history books. When she set it, she not only tore down an already highly-coveted world record previously owned by Ye Shiwen, but she demolished it by a full 2.06 seconds. For the past eight years, no woman came remotely close to Hosszu, as most of the world failed to even crack the 4:30 barrier.

None of this fazed the then 16-year-old Summer McIntosh, though. In 2022, she became the first not named Hosszu to break the 4:30 barrier since Ye in 2012. Then, at Canadian Nationals in April 2023, McIntosh clocked a 4:25.87, beating out Hosszu’s world record to become the first woman in history to get under the 4:26 barrier.

McIntosh didn’t replicate her world record at the 2023 World Championships, but she still won by a considerable margin, posting a time of 4:27.11 to record the third-fastest performance in history.

3. Ariarne Titmus (AUS), Women’s 400 Freestyle (3:55.38, LCM) — 2023 World Championships

Ariarne Titmus wasn’t even favored to win the women’s 400 free at Worlds. Summer McIntosh had come in as the world record holder, and she was also six whole years younger than Titmus. In addition, there was also the looming threat of Katie Ledecky, who once could go neck-and-neck with Titmus and was the defending world champion. This race was supposed to be a tight showdown between Titmus, McIntosh, and Ledecky, but Titmus ended up blowing everyone out of the water.

Titmus clocked a time of 3:55.38, becoming the first woman under the 3:56 barrier and beating out McIntosh’s old mark of 3:56.08 to reclaim the 400 free world record. At 22 years and 319 days old, she was also the oldest swimmer to ever set a world record in the women’s 400 free.

2. Mollie O’Callaghan (AUS), Women’s 200 Freestyle (1:52.85, LCM) — 2023 World Championships

Since 2021, we had all thought that Ariarne Titmus would be the one to break Federica Pellegrini‘s super-suited world record in the 200 free. She was consistently hitting 1:53-lows, and after she broke the 400 free world record this year, it seemed like it was finally about time for the 200 free world record to go down. However, the woman who ended up actually breaking the record was Titmus’s club teammate Mollie O’Callaghan.

O’Callaghan trailed Titmus for the first 150 meters of the race but then produced a massive 28.11 final 50 to run down her teammate. Her final time was 1:52.85, making her the second woman in history to break 1:53 in the 200 free. Meanwhile, Titmus went a best time of 1:53.01, which was the third-fastest performance ever.

The ironic thing about this world record going down was that Pellegrini’s back half was the most notable part of her previous world record. 14 years later, it was a swimmer with an even better back half who ended up breaking Pellegrini’s mark.

1. Leon Marchand (FRA), Men’s 400 Individual Medley (4:02.50, LCM) — 2023 World Championships

They couldn’t have scripted the breaking of Michael Phelps‘ final individual world record any better.

Phelps’ supersuited world record time of 4:03.84 had been the standard for the men’s 400 IM since the 2008 Beijing Olympics. Up until 2022, the only person who had been within two seconds of the record was Ryan Lochte, who went 4:05.18 in 2012. In recent years, the 400 IM had been particularly weak, as Chase Kalisz‘s Tokyo Olympic-winning time was almost six seconds slower than Phelps’ records.

Then came Leon Marchand, the Frenchman coached by the same person who coached Phelps: Bob Bowman. He first shocked the world by dropping five seconds at the 2022 World Championships, going 4:04.22 to get just 0.38 seconds away from Phelps’s world record. This year, he proceeded to smash Phelps’s record by over a second, going 4:02.50. To make things even more full-circle, Phelps helped call Marchand’s race on the NBC/Peacock broadcast and presented his gold medal to him on the podium.

Notably, before Marchand’s swim, Phelps became the longest-standing world record holder in an event with his 400 IM record. That title didn’t last long.

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Proper Pog
1 year ago

Not enough SCY. I know LCM is the more popular format, but 4:28 IS more insane than almost any other record on that list.

Proper Pog
Reply to  Proper Pog
1 year ago

to prove it: 4:28 won’t get broken by someone else sooner than any other swim on that list.

Fraser Thorpe
Reply to  Proper Pog
1 year ago

The fact you’ve written it TWICE as 4:28…

Proper Pog
Reply to  Fraser Thorpe
1 year ago

oops

just proves how insane it is tho… my subconscious doesn’t even believe it’s real

Fraser Thorpe
1 year ago

Love the engagement this kind of list gets.

Can I suggest a pitchfork type top 50/100 swims of all time?

Or perhaps break it down as a series of top the 10 swims of the decade?

Lots of great swims that have sometimes been a bit forgotten – Perkins 3:43.8 – some that are just super human – 2:05.96 – some that were more based on context (Fraser’s 3rd gold).

Fraser Thorpe
1 year ago

This kind of list is never going to make everyone happy – and I think there are valid criticisms here in the comments. That said, it just was great to be reminded of all the amazing swims from this year.

And how they were so good, a swim of 1:53.6 from. 16 year old doesn’t even get an HM.

mds
Reply to  Fraser Thorpe
1 year ago

“…a swim of 1:53.6 from a 16 year old….”

Who?
From what country?
From what state?
From what team?
Male or female?
SCY or LCM or SCM?
What stroke?
Performed in what meet?

Communication is sometimes such a lost art….

Troyy
Reply to  mds
1 year ago

The most famous 16 yo (now 17) in swimming.

Fraser Thorpe
Reply to  mds
1 year ago

As is critical thinking apparently…

Tanner-Garapick-Oleksiak-McIntosh
Reply to  mds
1 year ago

I believe Fraser Thorpe is referring to Summer McIntosh who swam 1:53.65 in the women’s 200 Free to win bronze behind the two Aussie speed demons.

mds

Alrighty, then.

Not recalling a third place finish by a young woman in her 5th best event, behind both IMs, 400 free and 200 fly, reflects the death of critical thinking….? Not even just diminished memory? Wow. It was a fine swim, but frankly, not one to be recalled without a bit more reference data, like a name. 4:25.87. Now that I’d immediately associate with Summer. 3:28.82, or even 4:02.50 = Marchand; 4:03.84 spells Phelps. 3:42.00 means Biederman supersuit.And 1:54.00 Lochte, though there are enough other significant swims in that range to call for additional info for critical thinking to spit out his name with any certainty.

Happy New Year.

Octavio Gupta
1 year ago

Leon: “This isn’t even my final form.”

tea rex
1 year ago

My 2023 Wrapped has Kate Douglass’ 1:48.37 on it. Had the feel of “Thank goodness, she finally is going to (once) show us how crazy she can go.” Plus the second and third fastest ever were in the pool, just to show how dominant a 1:48 is.

mds
1 year ago

All the LCM junkies, rather real swimming purists who recognize performances for their quality regardless of the course in which they are performed, will go crazy over this, but Marchand’s 400 IM LCM WR was objectively NOT EVEN HIS OWN best performance of the year. If any effort at objective analysis is made, 3:28.82 is simpy BETTER.

Sapiens Ursus
Reply to  mds
1 year ago

LCM is the discipline of the Olympics, the World Championship, Regional Championships…

It’s pretty non-negotiable as the final arbiter of this sport. Maybe you’re right (it’s kinda impossible to compare), it doesn’t matter. The LCM WR is objectively the more important and more respected swim.

jeff
Reply to  Sapiens Ursus
1 year ago

I wonder what the time cutoffs are though for when people consider a SCM or SCY to be more impressive than an LCM one. A 51.5 LCM 100 free would beat 50.0 SCM or a 45.0 SCY, I agree with that. But what about compared to 49.0 SCM or 44.0 SCY – are both of those more impressive than 51.5 LCM?

Stewie Griffin
Reply to  jeff
1 year ago

The thing is, you can’t properly compare LCM swims to SCY just because the number people who swim SCY is just a very small fraction of people who swim LCM.

Until the whole world swim SCY, you just can’t compare them.

And that’s never gonna happen.

Last edited 1 year ago by Stewie Griffin
jeff
Reply to  Stewie Griffin
1 year ago

sure, but there is some point where an SCY swim is considered more impressive than an LCM one. For the women’s 100 free specifically for example, 46 SCY is clearly more impressive than 56 LCM but not as impressive as a 52 LCM. I’m wondering what the tipping point would be there for most people

Joel
Reply to  jeff
1 year ago

I don’t have a tipping point. There is so much underwater swimming in scy that it just does not rate unless you live in the USA.

jeff
Reply to  Joel
1 year ago

so what about SCM? Is it possible for an SCM swim to be more impressive than an LCM one to you? I was certainly more impressed by Dressel’s 100 fly SCM world record than any of the LCM 100 fly swims at the most recent US Open

Stewie Griffin
Reply to  jeff
1 year ago

There’s no tipping point for the reason I already explained.

For example:

Gretchen Walsh’ SCY records are unbelievable. But what has she done in LCM?

jeff
Reply to  Stewie Griffin
1 year ago

swam pretty fast? set an American record? I think her 45. 100 free in SCY is clearly more impressive than a 55 second LCM 100 free. I also think Douglass’ 200 breast NCAA record was a more noteworthy and impressive swim than Lepage’s 2:24.70 LCM swim at Jr Worlds this year.

Last edited 1 year ago by jeff
Emily Se-Bom Lee
Reply to  jeff
1 year ago

the point about the 100 free is moot because 55 hasn’t been elite since the 90s. 114 women broke 55 in long course this year, with the top 2 performers being 52.0. and to answer this question, a 52.0 is absolutely better than gretchen’s scy time. moc went her 52.0 in a head to head against gretchen, and beat her by 2 seconds.

instead of comparing kate douglass to the w200 breast that was actually in the top 10, you’re making a strawman out of a swim that wasn’t even referenced in the article.

jeff
Reply to  Emily Se-Bom Lee
1 year ago

that was my point if you read the comments… there is clearly some point where an LCM swim is considered better and when it is considered worse. It’s not a strawman when the comments refuse to acknowledge that it is possible for a SCY swim to be better than an LCM swim.

Compared to Gretchen in the 100 SCY free, a 55 LCM is worse and a 52 LCM is better. So what LCM time is the tipping point? Unless you’re saying that 52.0 is the tipping point, then the question *wasnt* actually answered.

A mental exercise that may help here is having an intermediary SCM time, since people are much more readily accepting of SCM swims and… Read more »

Last edited 1 year ago by jeff
Emily Se-Bom Lee
Reply to  jeff
1 year ago

gretchen’s lcm time was 53.14, set at us nationals. it was a second slower than the gold medal time from worlds, and she was well outside of her pb when it mattered. she’s not deserving.

no one thought that lepage was deserving of a place here. the swims that are considered most deserving by people here are gold medal swims from major meets (olympics, worlds, NCAAs etc) and world records set inseason, especially since 10 is a small number relative to the volume of elite swims across the year. lepage’s swim doesn’t meet any of that criteria, but you arbitrarily pointed it out to make douglass look better, when douglass isn’t an age grouper. chikunova’s swim was ranked 8th, so… Read more »

Last edited 1 year ago by Emily Se-Bom Lee
jeff
Reply to  Emily Se-Bom Lee
1 year ago

girlie what are even talking about, no one brought up Chikunova. My point is that there can be an SCY swim that is better than some LCM swims, despite some in these comments claiming that is not possible. But now that you are bringing up Chikunova, yes Douglass’ SCY 200 breast clearly falls somewhere between Chikunova’s 200 breast and Lepage’s 200 breast, and anyone claiming it does not is being clearly disingenous.

Emily Se-Bom Lee
Reply to  jeff
1 year ago

your entire arguments revolves around how the scy compares to lcm in the same event. your example is kate douglass in the 200 breast, and you brought up lepage as your reference point. no one mentioned chikunova until you brought lepage. chikunova swims the same event and is literally #8 in the article, so don’t tell me now that’s she’s irrelevant but lepage is. chikunova is the benchmark because she broke the wr this year and is on the lower end of the top 10. lepage is 7 seconds slower than chikunova. lepage is only more relevant to your argument if douglass’ swim is closer to the 2:24, in which case douglass is not deserving of a spot on the… Read more »

jeff
Reply to  Emily Se-Bom Lee
1 year ago

but i literally did not say Douglass’ 200 breast deserves a spot on this list?? quite literally you are the one strawmanning at this point, not a SINGLE comment on this entire post said that Douglass’ 200 breast deserves to be on this list, from me or anyone else. If you admit that Douglass’ 200 breast is more impressive than Lepage’s and less impressive than Chikunova’s, then surely there is some kind of conversion from SCY impressiveness to LCM impressiveness, despite the glob of comments saying there isn’t

Last edited 1 year ago by jeff
Emily Se-Bom Lee
Reply to  jeff
1 year ago

you repeatedly stated that lepage was relevant but chikunova not. the last point was a demonstration of why you can’t primarily use lepage as the data point. if the system is not built for evaluating swims on the faster end, then the whole system is moot. most people who care about this sort of conversion only care about the faster end

Last edited 1 year ago by Emily Se-Bom Lee
jeff
Reply to  Emily Se-Bom Lee
1 year ago

The whole argument is whether or not you can say an SCY swim is better than an LCM swim, so no, there’s no need to bring up Chikunova’s swim. We’re “proving” a “there exists” type statement, not a “for all” one – ∀ not ∃ if you’re familiar with math symbols. I am saying that Douglass’ SCY swim is more impressive than some LCM swims and you’re over here saying “well here’s an LCM swim that it isn’t more impressive than” which is a strawman as no one in this entire post is arguing that Douglass’ SCY swim is more impressive than every single LCM one.

I’ll copy paste my comment from below and you can let me know which… Read more »

Last edited 1 year ago by jeff
Stewie Griffin
Reply to  jeff
1 year ago

You’re really grabbing at the straws

You’re so convinced there’s an imaginary “tipping point” that you ignore all facts regarding SCY:

1. It’s swum by a tiny fraction of swimmers

2. 25 yards affect strokes and distances significantly differently than LCM

Until the whole world swim in SCY that would establish baseline, there’s no such thing as “tipping point”

jeff
Reply to  Stewie Griffin
1 year ago

Here I’ll label my statements with number order to make it easy for you so you can pick exactly which one you think is incorrect:

1.Kate Douglass’ SCY 200 breast record is a more impressive swim than Lepage’s 2:24.70 LCM 200 breast.

2.Kate Douglass’ SCY 200 breast record is a less impressive swim than Chikunova’s 2:17.55 LCM 200 breast world record.

3.If 0.01 seconds were added to Chikunova’s time, it would still be a more impressive time than Douglass’ SCY swim

4.If you continue to add 0.01 seconds over and over to Chikunova’s time, it will eventually reach Lepage’s LCM time, which is less impressive than Douglass’ SCY time per statement (1)

Last edited 1 year ago by jeff
mds
Reply to  Stewie Griffin
1 year ago

Jeff teaches math and Stewie and the other LCM junkies failed math!

Stewie Griffin
Reply to  jeff
1 year ago

swam pretty fast? set an American record?

Nowhere as fast as her SCY lol.

jeff
Reply to  Stewie Griffin
1 year ago

You questioned what she has done in LCM, and I replied to you that she has set an American record in LCM. Nowhere did I say her LCM was as fast as her SCY

Stewie Griffin
Reply to  jeff
1 year ago

Exactly!

She has amazing set of SCY records and yet so far removed from LCM WRs

Why?

Because SCY is not comparable to LCM and never will until the whole world swim SCY, which will never happen.

And yet you keep insisting that “TIPPING POINT” where SCY is comparable to LCM exist.

jeff
Reply to  Stewie Griffin
1 year ago

or… she’s just better at SCY? Waiting on the reply that points out which statement is flawed btw

Stewie Griffin
Reply to  jeff
1 year ago

Finally.

It took you so long to come at the truth that multiple more walls in SCY affect different swimmers differently.

Until the whole world swim SCY that baseline can be established, there is no such thing as “tipping point”.

It only exist in your own head. You are welcome to have them. But you can’t make other people to believe in them.

jeff
Reply to  Stewie Griffin
1 year ago

Here I’ll label my statements with number order to make it easy for you so you can pick exactly which one you think is incorrect:

1.Kate Douglass’ SCY 200 breast record is a more impressive swim than Lepage’s 2:24.70 LCM 200 breast.

2.Kate Douglass’ SCY 200 breast record is a less impressive swim than Chikunova’s 2:17.55 LCM 200 breast world record.

3.If 0.01 seconds were added to Chikunova’s time, it would still be a more impressive time than Douglass’ SCY swim

4.If you continue to add 0.01 seconds over and over to Chikunova’s time, it will eventually reach Lepage’s LCM time, which is less impressive than Douglass’ SCY time per statement (1) – it starts as being more impressive than… Read more »

Last edited 1 year ago by jeff
Stewie Griffin
Reply to  jeff
1 year ago

Finally.

It took you so long to come at the truth that multiple more walls in SCY affect different swimmers differently.

Until the whole world swim SCY that baseline can be established, there is no such thing as “tipping point”.

It only exist in your own head. You are welcome to have them. But you can’t make other people to believe in them.

jeff
Reply to  Stewie Griffin
1 year ago

so.. unable to actually tell me which part of is logically invalid? if you’re unable to answer, I guess you cede your cass

mds
Reply to  Stewie Griffin
1 year ago

Still failing, Stewie.

Emily Se-Bom Lee
Reply to  jeff
1 year ago

your original point suggested the existence of a tipping point, which would help compare scy and lcm. yet despite repeatedly harping on about this idea, you have not suggested any way of actually measuring it. you can’t hope to change the discourse about scy without offering a rigourous method of contextualising those swims.

take the swimswam time converter, for example. because it’s topical, I’ll go from scy to lcm. the converter takes scy swims and finds the time it would be in lcm. it’s based on the idea that each scy swim is equivalent to another time in lcm, which is not too dissimilar to your tipping point idea.

this tool fails miserably, but does that mean that a given… Read more »

Last edited 1 year ago by Emily Se-Bom Lee
jeff
Reply to  Emily Se-Bom Lee
1 year ago

saying something doesn’t exist vs saying we don’t have an exact measurement for its value are two VERY different things. I am simply trying to get acknowledgement that Kate Douglass’ SCY 200 breast clearly falls within the two aforementioned LCM in impressiveness, and from the incapability of anyone to actually refute that, I think I’ve sufficiently proved my case

mds
Reply to  Emily Se-Bom Lee
1 year ago

Fails miserably. Wow. How miserable can it be. No one is attempting to base records or race finishes on it. It is simply an estimating tool. Lighten up a little and try to appreciate great swims wherever they may occur without closing the door on anything not LCM.

mds
Reply to  Stewie Griffin
1 year ago

Stewie — go get a math tutor or you’ll keep failing the concepts.

mds
Reply to  Stewie Griffin
1 year ago

Well, she hasn’t swum a fully rested LCM meet since setting those fantastic SCY records. Wait. Maybe she’ll do things to impress LCM junkies, maybe not. But that doesn’t mean the SCY swims were not of value.

mds
Reply to  Stewie Griffin
1 year ago

Most of you are missing the “comparison” point. While Stewie has apparently never seen a SCY tank, and further believes few others have either, millions of swimmers, including NUMEROUS stars originally from those SCY starved environs, obviously have been in them for well over a half-century. And further, the bulk of those swimmers have also seen LCM tanks. Commonly about 2/3 of year in SCY and 1/3 in LCM, at least competition wise. And almost all of these athletes have had full rest and shave in each course, each year, which creates a much larger “pool” for making legitimate comparisons as to their own swims. While conversion calculations will always be subject to variation due to the varying levels of… Read more »

Alex Wilson
Reply to  Stewie Griffin
11 months ago

The problem with SCY is that races are becoming an event of: Hold the underwater to just under legal distance take a few strokes and do a super rapid flip turn and repeat. Two months ago I watched a world champion LCM come in second in a SCY meet just because the other swimmer had better turns although the LCM swimmer’s speed in stoke was much better.

mds
Reply to  Sapiens Ursus
1 year ago

Good thing we aren’t judging how impressively the pool swam. People can swim impressively in any course.

Facts
Reply to  mds
1 year ago

I mean you could also argue Caeleb’s 17.63 was more impressive than all his best LC swims but at the end of the day LC holds way more weight in the sport particularly since that’s the course where the Olympics are swum which the general public cares about

mds
Reply to  Facts
1 year ago

That is a common subjective (not definitively right or wrong, just how it feels) analysis that says more about the attitude of the observer than about the quality of the performance. For those who follow BOTH SCY and LCM, and compare a particular performance against the PBs of all others in that course, a clearly more objective basis for analysis, Caeleb’s 17.63 from 2018 was clearly a better swim than his :21.07 from Tokyo.

The :21.07, 0.16 slower than Cielo’s WR, was a dominant Olympic win, 0.48 over Manadou’s :21.55.

But … when Caeleb set his :17.63 SCY record, he won by OVER A FULL SECOND over Olympic 4×100 Free Gold Medalist Ryan Held who finished at :18.64,… Read more »

Stewie Griffin
Reply to  mds
1 year ago

You’re only projecting yourself:

You’re SCY JUNKIE!

mds
Reply to  Stewie Griffin
1 year ago

If you’re talking to me — I’m a proud swimming junkie, not hemmed in by LCM, SCY or SCM.

John26
Reply to  mds
1 year ago

So he’s 3 seconds faster than Hugo Gonzales in SCY, big whoop.

mds
Reply to  John26
1 year ago

John26 — We can probably fit you in with Stewie’s math class — If you are talking Marchand now, he beat Hugo by 5.84 in 2023(3:28.82 v 3:34.66), after Hugo had beaten him in 2022 (3:32.88 Hugo v 3:34.08 Marchand).

And it is a pretty “big whoop” considering the reigning Olympic Champion in the 400 LCM IM, Chase Kalisz, is next fastest all time in 3:33.42 from 2017, the year he won BOTH IMs at the LCM World Championships. Kalisz remains 3rd all-time performer ahead of current WA LCM Silver winner Carson Foster, whose SCY PB is 3:33.79, with no one else even under 3:35. Hugo simply had a great 2022 race.

mds
1 year ago

So many deserving swims this year. But as good as the McEvoy, Hafnaoui and Finke swims were, they most certainly fit better in the Honorable Mention list, with any of the actual world records from the HM list moving up into the Top Ten.

Sapiens Ursus
1 year ago

Why is McEvoy being .02 off of the textile best time inthe 50 free better than Sjostrom setting a WR in the event!?

Steve Nolan
Reply to  Sapiens Ursus
1 year ago

Sjostrom already had the world record and had won plenty of medals.

Have a heart, folks.

SAMUEL HUNTINGTON
Reply to  Steve Nolan
1 year ago

McEvoy’s selection is also problematic because they gave him points for winning his first international medal, BUT that is not true.

Steve Nolan
Reply to  SAMUEL HUNTINGTON
1 year ago

Individually?

commonwombat
Reply to  Steve Nolan
1 year ago

Silver 100free 2015 Worlds (Kazan)

mds
Reply to  commonwombat
1 year ago

Odd meet. Mitch Larkin and Bronte Campbell domination!

Troyy
Reply to  Sapiens Ursus
1 year ago

He’s getting extra points for the story.

About Yanyan Li

Yanyan Li

Although Yanyan wasn't the greatest competitive swimmer, she learned more about the sport of swimming by being her high school swim team's manager for four years. She eventually ventured into the realm of writing and joined SwimSwam in January 2022, where she hopes to contribute to and learn more about …

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