Vinny Marciano clips .02 off of Michael Andrew’s 50 fly NAG at NASA Showcase

  21 Jared Anderson | April 19th, 2014 | Club, Featured, News

pinit fg en rect gray 28 Vinny Marciano clips .02 off of Michael Andrews 50 fly NAG at NASA Showcase

12-year-old Vinny Marciano just keeps charging at the NASA Showcase Classic. On the final night, Marciano took down his fifth National Age Group record of the meet, going 23.63 to just barely sneak under the NAG record for 11-12s held by Michael Andrew.

After breaking Andrew’s 100 free mark in a time trial, Marciano geared up for the 50 fly, cutting a full 1.2 seconds from prelims to eclipse the mark. This is the third of Andrew’s NAGs that Marciano has taken down this week and the second one today.

The past two records for Marciano have each been by very close margins. Andrew’s old record here was 23.65, and Marciano got under it by just .02 – he’s been making the fingernails count so far today, and he still has the 200 free to swim later on in the session.

Comments

  1. lane 0 says:
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    fifth NAG record in 4 days, 50 and 100 free, 50 and 100 back, now the 50 fly

    great job Vinny!

  2. Mikal W. Grass says:
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    Outrageous!!!

    Does he train the same way as MA or is that type of training not appropriate for a 12 yr old? How do these kids, including MA, improve week after week?

    Please correct me if I am wrong, but MA’s training doesn’t seem to be too well suited for a 500 or 1650.

    • Hulk Swim says:
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      It can be good up to the 500 in my opinion… In theory, Rushall says 800m… I just don’t think the Andrews give a hoot about the 500. His freestyle is probably his weakest stroke, where weak is a relative term… and they’ve been working up from the sprints this last year… so a 500 isn’t out of the realm of possibilities, but I’d say they’ve got bigger fish to fry going forward.

    • Flyin' says:
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      I don’t know what Marciano does, but I know MA has done USRPT for a very long time (his whole career, I believe), so apparently it works fine no matter the age. So far, no distance swimmer has utilized it and it seems speculation is that it won’t work as well. However, I can see it being adapted for longer racing. Although I think that would negate the “ultra-short” part. The general premise could be the same though, just swimming long distances at race-pace in practice.

    • sven says:
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      This is a really interesting point to me. It’s been made before, but I think that there is a factor at play here that would be a detriment to MA in longer events that the race specific conditioning of USRPT can’t overcome. I’ll get to that below, though.

      I think that USRPT would be well suited for a 500. If my memory serves (seriously, correct me if I’m wrong– I swear I’ve seen this trend, but I’m not pausing to check actual sources so either take my word for it or prove me wrong), the way that the best swimmers in this event are splitting the race these days suggest that, for the most part, the 500 is swam like a sprint in that the last 350 yards are swam at a pretty even pace, with total exhaustion being required by the end to maintain the pace. Obviously, sometimes a swimmer falls a bit off pace or has a tiny bit too much left over at the last 50, but generally within striking range of the other 50’s and certainly nothing like Sun Yang’s absurd final 50 on his 1500.

      On the flip side, the 1650 and 1500 tend to feature that “finishing kick” where the final 50 or so is done at a second or more under the pace of the preceeding 50’s (Hackett and Sun Yang are the most notable and extreme examples of this. Please apply the same conditions as the above parenthetical cause this train ain’t stoppin’ for no one). In my personal opinion, this is what constitutes the fine line between mid-distance sprinting and distance swimming. So I’m not sure USRPT is any better than other methods to train this, but I don’t think it would be any worse.

      So anyway, I think that the technique that Rushall advocates for freestyle is a huge limiting factor in races over 200 y/m. It’s decidedly shoulder driven, and relies rather heavily on [what I believe to be] skewed evidence that the kick is not propulsive. Dr. Rushall’s implication that because the kick can be shown to improve the pull through balancing action, that this is the only cause of difference in propulsion (http://coachsci.sdsu.edu/swim/biomechs/deschodt.htm). I submit that a hip driven stroke with proper kick timing and technique would be more efficient, and is thus why almost no elite 800/1500 swimmer is doing Rushall’s style despite his opinion that it is incomparably superior.

      So my thought is that USRPT is indeed limited in it’s application to distance events, but only as long as the conditioning remains tied to the technique.

      • sven says:
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        doh- nevermind, Hackett faded at the end of his 1500m world record, I’m not sure where I saw comparisons that were similar.. maybe a different race of his, I have no idea. Take that part with a grain of salt.

        • lane 0 says:
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          I think Ian Thorpe is a better comparison. He was known for his “finishing kick”

          And I’m with you on the fact that the freestyle kick IS propulsive when Sun Yang is powering home in his races the only this he’s doing different is that he is kicking really fast

      • Hulk Swim says:
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        Stupid question… why not train the hip driven stroke usrpt style? My understanding was never that the two (technique and usrpt) were handcuffed. And as I’ve said, while I like a lot about usrpt, I’m by no means a strict applier… I break a lot of the rules :-)

        • sven says:
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          Exactly. I was trying to say that USRPT will be a a sprinters-only tool for exactly as long as people use the sprint technique Rushall prescribes. I just find it a bit strange that one of the tenets of USRPT is that stroke technique changes at different velocities, and yet the creator advocates one technique for all speeds of freestyle.

        • sven says:
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          And trust me, I’m far from a USRPT purist. I consider myself a proponent of race pace as a base to build a program around, and USRPT comes close enough to that that I generally find myself defending it. As I’ve said before, Dr. Rushall is a very smart man, but he’s a smart man with an agenda, and so I try to take his words with a grain of salt.

    • Dinolam says:
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      He swims for MCSC (Morris County Swim Club) probably the best team around and the best team to join today and any other day! If you want your swimmer to improve week after week join MCSC it will show.

  3. rafael says:
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    Tough to say for long distance. Almost all latest unbeatable long distance were trained by cotterel himself.

  4. lane 0 says:
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    The volume vs velocity arguments have always seemed strange to me because you need BOTH.
    the fastest swimmer is the one with the highest VELOCITY for the entire VOLUME of the race

    Vinny has both Speed and endurance. He is the first and only 11-12 to swim the 50 under 22 seconds AND the 1650 under 17 minutes.

    • sven says:
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      That’s Christian Quintero range!

      I agree that both are needed. Very few are on the pure race pace side. Rushall is one of them, and Michael Andrew is popularizing the idea of pure race pace, but even then, the majority of race pace advocates use it as one tool in a box of many. I definitely lean more toward the intensity end of the spectrum, but I do see value in some aerobic swimming, some drills, and some dryland/weights.

  5. Kevin T says:
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    Ok, Marciano is getting ridiculous now! I mean that in a good way, of course. I never thought MA’s 11-12 records would be broken. Especially the 50 fly. Never thought another 12 year old would go 23 in the 50 fly, I just didn’t think it would ever happen again.

    Marciano though, is truly a sprinter and only a sprinter (not that there is anything wrong with that) isn’t he?

    • Swimmer says:
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      That is completely untrue. His 500 is a 4:50 and his mile a 16:54 so to say that is pure ignorance. do your research

  6. lane 0 says:
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    Label him a “pure sprinter” if you want. But he’s in the top 5 in the country for his age in every single scy freestyle event from the 50 to 1650. No, I don’t think he is a pure sprinter but his 50s and 100s have been really good this week

    His 100 back record seems untouchable, it’s FASTER than Chas Morton’s legendary 100 fly record.

  7. bobo gigi says:
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    Mr Marciano is far from being a pure sprinter.
    He shines on freestyle, on backstroke and on butterfly.
    And as Lane 0 said, in that SCY season, he swam fast times from the 50 to the 1650.

    And Kevin T, you didn’t think MA’s 11/12 records would be broken.
    Now Vinny Marciano breaks them.
    And look at Winn Aung in the next months. He turns 12 only at the end of July and already swims crazy fast times on freestyle and on butterfly. He will crush some records of this age category in yards and in long course.

  8. bobo gigi says:
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    Race video

  9. bobo gigi says:
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    Awards ceremony.

  10. Dinolam says:
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    He swims for MCSC (Morris County Swim Club) probably the best team around and the best team to join today and any other day! If you want your swimmer to improve week after week join MCSC it will show.

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About Jared Anderson

Jared Anderson just can’t stay away from the pool. A competitive career sixteen years and running wasn’t enough for this native Minnesotan, who continues to get his daily chlorine fix. A lifelong lover of writing, Jared now combines the two passions as Senior Reporter for SwimSwam.com, covering swimming at every …

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