Levelled Up: McKeon and Dressel Earn “Legend” Status After #Tokyo2020 Results

Within the world of top-end competitive swimming, there are different clubs, and I hear them talked about with my SwimSwam partner Gold Medal Mel Stewart.

There are “Elites,” which generally encompass National Teamers, near-National Teamers, and swimmers who compete at international meets for their country of all kinds – from Pan Ams and World University Games up through the Olympics.

Then there’s a certain status in the hierarchy when you make an Olympic Team (by qualification criteria, especially), that gets you a different status. You’ve been to the big show. You know what the pressure is like under the brightest lights. You get the tattoo and to sign your name OLY afterward. You get more votes in the unions, and you get higher speaking fees, and you get invited to better events and for longer.

Then there are new clubs once you earn a medal, once you earn an individual medal, and once you earn Olympic gold.

But there’s another tier that transcends all of these wildly-accomplished athletes, each of whom in their own right are already one-in-ten-thousand, or better.

There are the Legends. The swimmers who will be brought up in debates and conversations for decades to come. The answers to the trivia questions. The comparisons for future generations.

Where these lines are drawn are not entirely clear, but we know the names when we hear them. Missy Franklin, Michael Phelps, Katie Ledecky, Johnny Weissmuller, Ian Thorpe, Shane Gould, Grant Hackett, Kosuke Kitajima, Jenny Thompson, Natalie Coughlin, Krisztina Egerszegi, Katinka Hosszu, Janet Evans. The athletes who are brought back to award medals at future Olympic Games. The athletes who old coaches tell their young athletes about.

Everyone’s list for inclusion in this most elite tier will be a little different, but I suspect that if most swim nerds sat down and wrote up a list, it would be somewhere in the neighborhood of 70 or 75 names – about 3 per Olympic quad.

And if there are two from the Tokyo 2020 Games who have propelled themselves with clear intention into that Legend tier, it’s Australian Emma McKeon and American Caeleb Dressel.

Entrance into this tier isn’t wholly predicated on success at the Olympic Games, though a huge run of Olympic success is definitely a part of it. World Records, World Championships, and the names of swimmers you beat matter too. But nobody from the modern era can get into this tier without at a minimum of multiple Olympic gold medals, and either some individual golds or a whole lot of relay golds.

Both swimmers checked that criteria at this meet, which is really just the icing on their very powerful resumes.

Those resumes, in brief:

Emma McKeon

  • Tokyo medal count: 4 gold, 3 bronze
  • Overall medal count: 5 gold, 2 silver, 4 bronze
  • Australia’s most-medaled Olympian in history, surpassing Ian Thorpe
  • 7 Olympic Record swims in Tokyo
  • 1 World Record swim in Tokyo (relay)
  • First female swimmer, and second woman in any sport, to win 7 medals at the same Olympic Games
  • 4 World Championships, 17 total World Championship medals
  • 1 active World Record (400 free relay)

Caeleb Dressel

  • Tokyo medal count: 5 gold
  • Overall medal count: 7 gold
  • World Championships: 13 gold, 2 silver (LCM)
  • World Championships: 6 gold, 3 silver (SCM)
  • 6 Olympic Record swims in Tokyo
  • 2 World Record swim in Tokyo
  • 9 active World Records (the next closest is Kliment Kolesnikov with 4)

For Dressel, the progress we’ve seen from him since Rio, where he earned medals only in relays, seemed inevitable, almost a formality where he just needed to continue doing what he’s been doing in the 5-year interim. He dominated the ISL, and he’s felt almost-unbeatable at meets that matter for about 3 years now.

McKeon, on the other hand, came into the last 2 years with a ton of Australian relay medals, some individual silvers and bronzes, but a general sense that she was just at the top of the supporting cast of a rising Australian women’s group moreso than the star of the show.

The first real signs we got that McKeon was lined up for something special actually came in the 2019 International Swimming League season. Starting with her first meet in Lewisville, she started popping up at the top of lots of races, winning lots of meet MVP awards, and eventually finished 3rd in the overall MVP scoring behind Sarah Sjostrom and Caeleb Dressel.

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Togger
1 month ago

Be really cool to get McKeon’s view on what she thinks led to her performances being much in Tokyo compared to the Rio games, which is when she was the “traditional” peak age for swimmers, particularly on the women’s side.

Sub13
Reply to  Togger
1 month ago

She didn’t qualify in Rio for the two events she won in Tokyo. Cate and Bronte were so dominant (in Australia at least) that she was more of a 200 swimmer. Once she found her own and focussed more on the sprints, she exploded.

M d e
Reply to  Sub13
1 month ago

I think that’s one lesson everyone should take from Tokyo tbh.

Being too worried about what your opponents are doing will harm your chance of your own success.

Emma leaned into her strengths and was rewarded with 2 Olympic golds in events she had previously been unable to qualify in. Larkin dropped his best event in order to compete in one with a theoretically weaker field and missed the final.

torchbearer
1 month ago

An interesting discussion for sure, but “70 or 75″ Legends is way too many…… I would make it about 15-20 maximum….

Claveria
Reply to  torchbearer
1 month ago

????

Sub13
Reply to  torchbearer
1 month ago

I agree 75 is too many. 15 is probably too little.

If you set two of the minimum criteria as “multiple individual Olympic golds” and “minimum seven Olympic overall medals” it cuts the list down to well below 70.

EDIT: Actually, maybe 7 is too many? It disadvantages swimmers from countries with low relay prospects. Maybe 5 would be fairer? Still, I think multiple Olympic individual golds and 5 overall medals would be less than 70 people.

Last edited 1 month ago by Sub13
JimSwim22
Reply to  Sub13
1 month ago

I would go with 4 individual gold

Sub13
Reply to  JimSwim22
1 month ago

Correct me if I’m wrong, but I believe that would limit the list to Phelps, Spitz, Ledecky and Otto.

I don’t think anyone would agree that there are only 4 legendary swimmers (or 3 of you remove Otto, which you should)

Syd
Reply to  Sub13
1 month ago

Perhaps we should add one more category: a rarefied, demigod category to which only Spitz, Phelps and Ledecky belong.

JimSwim22
Reply to  Syd
1 month ago

Biondi would go in that group pretty easily

Texas Tap Water
Reply to  JimSwim22
1 month ago

Biondi won only 2 Olympics individual gold

You limit to 4 individual gold

Sub13
Reply to  Syd
1 month ago

Perhaps. Just from 2020 results, Dressel is one away from joining the club, McKeon, McKeown, Titmus, Finke, Ohashi and Rylov are two away. Arguably any of them could make that up in Paris (but obviously Dressel needing to only defend 1/3 is the more likely than the others).

Smith-Jacoby-Huske-Weitzeil
Reply to  Syd
1 month ago

Janet Evans belongs on the Mount Rushmore of women since Janet Evans, completely ripped off by FINA and IOC, was unable to swim the women’s 1500 meter freestyle at the World Championships and the Summer Olympics due to sexist, misogynist attitudes prevalent at the time.

Last edited 1 month ago by Smith-Jacoby-Huske-Weitzeil
Troyy
Reply to  Smith-Jacoby-Huske-Weitzeil
1 month ago

The men didn’t have the 800 so same number of medal opportunities.

JimSwim22
Reply to  Sub13
1 month ago

Biondi still had a better medal haul at one meet than Dressel.
But I was thinking 4 in a career.

Bill G
Reply to  Sub13
1 month ago

Additional to your list: Egerszegi (HUN) with 5 individual golds. Women with 4 indvidual golds: Janet Evans (USA), de Bruijin (NED), and Klochova (UKR).

Other men with 4 individual golds: Darnyi (HUN), Matthes (GDR), Kitijima (JPN), Popov (RUS).

Sub13
Reply to  Bill G
1 month ago

Thanks. I thought I might have missed some. It’s impossible to find a list of most individual gold medals. I was clicking in and out of individual Wikipedia pages haha.

frug
Reply to  Sub13
1 month ago

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_multiple_Olympic_gold_medalists#List_of_most_career_gold_medals_in_individual_events

You can click the sport column and then just scroll down to swimming if you don’t want to pick through the none swimmers.

Smith-Jacoby-Huske-Weitzeil
Reply to  Bill G
1 month ago

Individual World Records (LCM)
Ledecky – 14
Egerszegi – 2
de Bruijn – 9 (if tie is included)
Evans – 7
Klochova – 1
.
.
.
McKeon – 0

If the crack staff at swimswam could confirm the non-zero totals. Thanks!

BillyBob
Reply to  Smith-Jacoby-Huske-Weitzeil
1 month ago

You’re named after a silver medal team

Smith-Jacoby-Huske-Weitzeil
Reply to  Bill G
1 month ago

Limit the screening to individual medals for an even playing field amongst nations.

Women
Ledecky – 6G, 1S, 0B
Egerszegi – 5G, 1S, 1B
de Bruijn – 4G, 1S, 1B
Evans – 4G, 1S, 0B
Klochkova – 4G, 1S, 0B
Otto – 4G, 0S, 0B

Less than three individual gold medals would most likely generate too large a list.

frug
Reply to  Sub13
1 month ago

Egerszegi has won 5.

anty75
Reply to  Sub13
1 month ago

Janet Evans, Tamás Darnyi, Alexander Popov, Yana Klochkova were also swimmers with 4 individual golds, Krisztina Egerszegi had 5 individual golds ( I am counting from 1988 onwards)Though again, I don’t agree with Olympics being the only criteria.

Last edited 1 month ago by anty75
Texas Tap Water
Reply to  JimSwim22
1 month ago

That would disqualify legends and dominant swimmers such as Dawn Fraser, Jenny Thompson, Franziska van Almsick, Ian Thorpe, Vladimir Salnikov, Grant Hackett, Pieter VDH

Smith-Jacoby-Huske-Weitzeil
Reply to  Texas Tap Water
1 month ago

Dawn Fraser won three individual gold medals at the Summer Olympics. It’s an insult to Dawn Fraser to be even compared to Emma McKeon. Ditto Shane Gould.

Fraser, Dawn – legend
Gould, Shane – legend
McKeon, Emma – fraud

Dawn Fraser broke eleven individual world records (LCM) in the women’s 100 meter freestyle. Emma McKeon has yet to break one individual world record (LCM) in the women’s 100 meter freestyle. Shane Gould broke two individual world records (LCM) in the women’s 100 meter freestyle. Emma McKeon has yet to break one individual world record (LCM) in the women’s 100 meter freestyle.

Dawn Fraser broke three individual world records (LCM) in the women’s 200 meter freestyle. Emma McKeon has… Read more »

McKeon-Hodges-McKeon-Campbell
Reply to  Smith-Jacoby-Huske-Weitzeil
1 month ago

Don’t forget that “fraud” was in the team that beat Smith-Jacoby-Huske-Weitzel and Emma it is not comparing herself to others so don’t attack her.

Sub13
Reply to  Braden Keith
1 month ago

Yes all very good points Braden. I agree. Setting too rigid of criteria can end up with missing some people who are obviously legends.

Much like tennis, it’s very difficult to compare between generations because of how much the sport has changed, how many more events there are, account for wars and cancelled games and super suits etc

Coach Macgyver
Reply to  Sub13
1 month ago

Dressel is a “legend”. I don’t think he gets enough props from what he achieved at World Champs which is just as competitive as the Olympics.

Smith-Jacoby-Huske-Weitzeil
Reply to  Coach Macgyver
1 month ago

A legend in the men’s 100 meter butterfly:

Summer Olympic Games title
World Aquatics Championships title
World Record (LCM)

Now break the world record (LCM) in the men’s 50 meter freestyle and the men’s 100 meter freestyle and the same can be said for the two aforementioned events.

Coach Macgyver
Reply to  Smith-Jacoby-Huske-Weitzeil
1 month ago

He’s a legend in the sprint free. Fastest sprinter for last 4 years on top of what he has achieved in SCY and SCM.

Last edited 1 month ago by Coach Macgyver
tea rex
Reply to  Sub13
1 month ago

If your list excludes Jason Lezak, it is too narrow for my liking.

Ol' Longhorn
Reply to  tea rex
1 month ago

Agree. He’s like the Robert Horry of swimming.

Coach Macgyver
Reply to  Ol' Longhorn
1 month ago

I’d go with 2013 Ray Allen

Aquajosh
1 month ago

I knew months ago that McKeon was setting herself up for a good Olympics. She, along with Seebohm, have been Australia’s most dependable female swimmers for years. Both are known to swim fastest when the big lights are on. When I saw Emma’s lineup and how fast she swam at Aussie Trials, I saw her as the most likely candidate to pull an Alicia Coutts, and knew she would win at least six medals. It’s no surprise that both she and Seebohm walked home with individual medals in every event they swum.

I’m really happy for her because she’s been swimming in the shadows of the Campbells, but with seven medals and being the most decorated Australian Olympian ever, with… Read more »

Last edited 1 month ago by Aquajosh
Sub13
Reply to  Aquajosh
1 month ago

Totally agree, but just two points:

Seebohm didn’t medal in bother her individuals. She swam the 100 back as well. But if you’re talking about overall rather than just this Olympics, yes she has medaled in both.

I agree that it’s easier to perform as the underdog. However, Emma broke the OR in the heats/semis of both her winning events. She improved her time in all three of her individual finals. She has shown she can perform even going in a ls a favourite in the final of an event.

Aquajosh
Reply to  Sub13
1 month ago

I’m speaking less to the expectations of the swimming world and moreso to the whole of a swimming-mad country who now knows her name and as their most decorated Olympic athlete ever, expects her to win. She’s not just known in swimming circles now. She’s about to transcend from being just an athlete to full-blown celebrity in Australia in a major way.

Last edited 1 month ago by Aquajosh
Philip Johnson
Reply to  Aquajosh
1 month ago

That’s what made Dressel’s performance so extraordinary. Ever since 2017, he was expected to win multiple individual Olympic gold’s and set WRs, which he did. After his 100 free, him crying, I believe, was the weight of those expectations going away to some extent.

SwamFlyUSA
1 month ago

Dressel is first male to ever sweep 50,100 free AND 100 fly!

Bruh
Reply to  SwamFlyUSA
1 month ago

Matt biondi almost did it in Seoul 88’. Gold in 50 and 100 free, silver to Anthony nesty by .01 in the 100 fly.

JayAreKay
Reply to  Bruh
1 month ago

I grew up idolizing Biondi. But as the saying goes, close or almost counts only in horseshoes and hand grenades

SwamFlyUSA
Reply to  Bruh
1 month ago

That’s a true and Great Point! Nesty now coaching Finckle! It’s Biondi amazing how the cycle continues!

Sorry had some dad humor there.

Ol' Longhorn
Reply to  Bruh
1 month ago

Ironically, Dressel had a Biondi-esque finish to his 100 fly, but Milak didn’t Nesty him.

Aquajosh
Reply to  Bruh
1 month ago

And decades later, Nesty would have a hand in developing the one who would do what Biondi couldn’t because of him. How crazy is that?

Ecoach
Reply to  SwamFlyUSA
1 month ago

To be fair the 50 Free only became an event in 1988. Maybe Spitz would have won 8.

Jeff
1 month ago

I agree these two are legends. But where do you draw the line? Take Piersol: same number of medals as Dressel but two are silver. Won two events in back to back Olympics. Multiple WR swims over four years- still holds one. 10 golds at wc’s. Great longevity- At the top or near the top for 10 years. Is he a legend? I say yes.

Last edited 1 month ago by Jeff
Robbos
Reply to  Jeff
1 month ago

Piersol is a legend, the GOAT backstroker.

Eagleswim
Reply to  Jeff
1 month ago

What? Of course peirsol is a legend. Maybe I’m not following but if there is a line of would certainly fall well below peirsol

There's no doubt that he's tightening up
Reply to  Jeff
1 month ago

Piersol was so good we never got to see Phelps take backstroke seriously enough to swim it internationally.

tea rex
Reply to  Jeff
1 month ago

Dig into non-Olympic events too. Peirsol was undefeated in any long course 100 and 200 back for most of two Olympic quads.
Absolute legend.

Ecoach
Reply to  Jeff
1 month ago

It is worth noting that most of the 4 individual gold medalists are from countries where you were paid to swim. Evans hung on and won but I put her in ultra legend with Ledecky. Biondi was a transcendent talent but didn’t get paid to swim and definitely didn’t have the support once he finished college. Swimming until 1992 was graduate college and retire. There were no professionals so I don’t think it fair to use the same measuring stick for legends. Maybe 4 individual golds or 3 individual golds at one Olympics.

Ecoach
Reply to  Jeff
1 month ago

Also how do you deal with Peaty. Only 2 individual golds but those Medley relay golds might as well be considered his as well.

Sub13
1 month ago

Both had such incredible meets. Both are now in the top 100 most medaled Olympians of all time after only 2 Olympics each. Both the clear swimmer of the meet for their respective gender. Both intelligent, humble and deserving.

A great outcome for the sport.

Smith-Jacoby-Huske-Weitzeil
1 month ago

Definition of a Legend:
Individual Event
Summer Olympics Gold Medal
World Championship Gold Medal
World Record (LCM)

Active Female Swimmers
Hosszu – W 200 IM, W 400 IM
King – W 100 BR
Ledecky – W 400 FR, W 800 FR, W 1500 FR
Pellegrini – W 200 FR
Sjostrom – W 100 FL

The criteria is the trifecta.

Bruh
Reply to  Smith-Jacoby-Huske-Weitzeil
1 month ago

Almost MacNeil

M d e
Reply to  Smith-Jacoby-Huske-Weitzeil
1 month ago

McKeon > Pellegrini and King

And I’m a huge pellegrini fan.

Come on now.

Smith-Jacoby-Huske-Weitzeil
Reply to  M d e
1 month ago

Federica Pellegrini
Women’s 200 meter freestyle
Summer Olympics Gold Medal – 1
World Championships Gold Medals – 4
World Records (LCM) – 6

Emma McKeon has never won an individual gold medal at the FINA World Aquatics Championships unlike Federica Pellegrini. Emma McKeon has never broken an individual world record (LCM) unlike Federica Pellegrini.

Get a clue. Emma McKeon is completely outclassed.

Last edited 1 month ago by Smith-Jacoby-Huske-Weitzeil
M d e
Reply to  Smith-Jacoby-Huske-Weitzeil
1 month ago

Pellegrini set the WRs she did because she happened to peak during the supersuit era.

Her textile bests and pre supersuit bests aren’t the same quality as the times McKeon has swam. Is Biederman > Agnel?

McKeon is more versatile and has had success across a broader range of events.

As I said I’m a huge Pellegrini fan, and I think her 200 free is criminally underrated by a lot of fans and she has been the most consistent at that distance over the last decade, but to be able to do the 200 just about as well and also be able to drop down into the 50 and 100 as well as the 100 fly is next level.

I… Read more »

frug
Reply to  M d e
1 month ago

To be fair, Pellegrini did set her first WR in 2007 which was pre-super suit. Admittedly it lasted like 24 hours, but she still broke it.

M d e
Reply to  frug
1 month ago

I had honestly forgotten she briefly held it before Laure Manadou.

Like I said, I’m a huge fan of Pellegrini, I think her 200 gets slept on big time in terms of her consistent high level swims for about a decade. I just don’t think the fact her 200 free record has lasted so long is a particularly strong indicator of her historical greatness, when the 200 free seems to be the event that was most aided by the suits.

Smith-Jacoby-Huske-Weitzeil
Reply to  M d e
1 month ago

Next level is world records.

Reference Inga de Bruijn for the definition of next level:

Inga de Bruijn
World Records (LCM)
Women’s 50 meter freestyle – 4
Women’s 100 meter freestyle – 2
Women’s 100 meter butterfly – 3

Please fill in the blanks, so to speak, for the number of individual world records (LCM) in the aforementioned events.

Meanwhile, Emma McKeon has broken ZERO (0) individual world records (LCM) to date.

I won’t bother to ask you the number of individual Summer Olympics gold medals, the number of individual World Championships gold medals, the number of individual world records (LCM), since you’re too busy in your pathetic fantasy world.

iLikePsych
Reply to  M d e
1 month ago

Saying Pellegrini is the female equivalent of Biederman is completely disrespectful to her. She had already won Olympic gold in 2008 (yes, there were super suits but still not the same as 2009) and clearly has shown over the past decade it’s due to her natural ability and not affinity with the suits like Biederman. She just happened to set her 2009 records because she was already the best in the the world, not because they made her the best.

Last edited 1 month ago by iLikePsych
M d e
Reply to  iLikePsych
1 month ago

I didn’t say she was the female equivalent.

I said she still holds the world record because of the suits.

Agnel isn’t the equivalent of McKeon either.

Sub13
Reply to  Smith-Jacoby-Huske-Weitzeil
1 month ago

I think that criteria is a little rigid. First, it discounts anyone before 1973 when the world champs didn’t exist. It also puts undue pressure on one event. By your definition, someone could win an event once at the Olympics and once the World Champs with a world record and never achieve anything else and they would be a legend. I wouldn’t call someone a “legend of the sport” with one Olympic medal and one world champs medal.

I think, like the article says, you need to take into account some more intangible criteria as well.

Smith-Jacoby-Huske-Weitzeil
Reply to  Sub13
1 month ago

Cry me a river. From a historical perspective, Emma McKeon is a nobody compared to Inge de Bruijn. Inge de Bruijn is a legend.

Robbos
Reply to  Smith-Jacoby-Huske-Weitzeil
1 month ago

I thought you would change your name to McKeown- Hodges- McKeon- Campbell.
You must be so Hurting!!!!!!

Sub13
Reply to  Smith-Jacoby-Huske-Weitzeil
1 month ago

I didn’t even mention McKeon. No need to start throwing out the insults.

I said your criteria are flawed because they would allow someone with only two medals to be a legend while potentially denying someone with 20 Olympic golds from being one. It doesn’t make sense.

Your criteria seem to be looking for “legends of a particular event”, and even then I don’t think your criteria is the best way to manage it.

By your criteria, Dawn Fraser is not a legend despite pulling a three peat because the world champs didn’t exist.

Last edited 1 month ago by Sub13
M d e
Reply to  Sub13
1 month ago

You need to think of an American example of the same thing or he won’t get it.

Sub13
Reply to  M d e
1 month ago

Yes, good point.

By SJHW’s logic, Mark Spitz is not a legend because the world champs didn’t exist when he competed. Despite the fact that he won 7 Olympic golds in one Olympics, 9 overall.

SJHW: Do you understand why that is wrong now?

Robbos
Reply to  Sub13
1 month ago

You don’t use facts & logic when discussing with SJHW, he thinks all Aussies choke & since they didn’t in Tokyo, he needs to find another way to have a go.

Sub13
Reply to  Robbos
1 month ago

How DARE Emma win 7 medals. Hasn’t she heard about CATE CAMPBELL IN RIO!?!?!?

Marklewis
1 month ago

McKeon has no world records.

Yes, Braden, she won lots of medals. But no world records.

So, no, she is not a legend yet.

Marklewis
Reply to  Braden Keith
1 month ago

All your other legends had multiple individual world records.

Coach
Reply to  Marklewis
1 month ago

Move those goalposts!

Marklewis
Reply to  Marklewis
1 month ago

No individual world records to be more exact.

Sub13
Reply to  Marklewis
1 month ago

I was waiting for the McKeon bashing to start. The article has been up for over an hour so you took longer than expected actually.

Can we just celebrate two incredible athletes?

Marklewis
Reply to  Sub13
1 month ago

Yes, McKeon swam great at the Tokyo Olympics.

Sub13
Reply to  Marklewis
1 month ago

She won the most medals of any female Olympian in history. She is equal fourth place for the most medals in one Olympics for any country, any sport of any gender. If that just “great” to you then I can’t really reason with you because you’re immune to logic.

Smith-Jacoby-Huske-Weitzeil
Reply to  Marklewis
1 month ago

Emma McKeon has never won an individual gold medal at the FINA World Aquatics Championships. Emma McKeon has never broken an individual world record (LCM).

Old Man Chalmers
Reply to  Smith-Jacoby-Huske-Weitzeil
1 month ago

love these ever changing goalposts. before tokyo you said that mckeon would never win an individual olympic gold because she never won an individual gold up to that point, and because prior to tokyo, no australian woman had since 2008. everyone here talks about individual olympic gold as the golden standard, and now she’s won 2 (which is more than manuel, who you could never stop talking about).

not to mention your name is wrong. you say that you honour the wr holders of the w4x100 medley, yet you changed it prematurely not once but twice, and usa didn’t even win the race. part of the reason being that mckeon outsplit huske by 0.25

Last edited 1 month ago by Old Man Chalmers
Smith-Jacoby-Huske-Weitzeil
Reply to  Old Man Chalmers
1 month ago

Gibberish!

Australia has its female legends:
Fraser, Dawn – legend
Gould, Shane – legend
McKeon, Emma – fraud

World Records (LCM)
Women’s 100 meter freestyle
Fraser, Dawn – 11
Gould, Shane – 2
McKeon, Emma – 0

World Records (LCM)
Women’s 200 meter freestyle
Fraser, Dawn – 3
Gould, Shane – 3
McKeon, Emma – 0

Old Man Chalmers
Reply to  Smith-Jacoby-Huske-Weitzeil
1 month ago

also would love to hear your thoughts on pieter van den hoogenband based on that comment

CRD
Reply to  Old Man Chalmers
1 month ago

I’m completely on your side in this argument, but PvdH had a world record in the 100 free that stood for 8 years and got broken by someone in a so called ‘supersuit’.

Last edited 1 month ago by CRD
M d e
Reply to  Marklewis
1 month ago

Definition of Legend for most commenters:

  1. Is American.
Texas Tap Water
Reply to  M d e
1 month ago

Well, obviously according to SwimSwam peanut gallery, only American can be legend.

Smith-Jacoby-Huske-Weitzeil
Reply to  Texas Tap Water
1 month ago

Australian female swiimmers
Fraser, Dawn – legend
Gould, Shane – legend
McKeon, Emma – fraud

One of the aforementioned three has never broken an individual world record (LCM) while the other two have their names plastered all over the history books.

Ol' Longhorn
Reply to  M d e
1 month ago

Goes without saying.

Sub13
Reply to  Marklewis
1 month ago

McKeon does not own an individual world record. That’s correct. However,

1. She owns the second fastest 100 free of all time, only behind Sjostrom’s that was set as a relay lead off. Emma owns the fastest ever 100 free competing as an individual. This got her the Olympic record (twice).

2. Emma has broken the 4×100 free world record four times, the fourth time exactly 7 years and 1 day after the first time. On the final time, she became the second fastest free relay split performer of all time (51.35) only behind Cate Campbell.

3. She broke the 50 free Olympic record 3 times, and owns the two fastest times since June 2019.

To me that means more… Read more »

anty75
Reply to  Sub13
1 month ago

“One random swim”,surely its not about Sarah. Not only her PBs in all events are better than Emma’s also if you look at her 10 best times in each event she would be far above Emma. No comparison really.

Sub13
Reply to  anty75
1 month ago

Who said anything about Sarah Sjostrom? I was comparing one specific record of hers but I never said anything negative about her. I absolutely was not referring to her. I think SS is one of the most talented swimmers ever and her Olympic results absolutely don’t reflect her ability.

There are a number of swimmers who have broken a world record and then never gotten within half a second of it again. I think a consistent very high level is more impressive than that.

Smith-Jacoby-Huske-Weitzeil
Reply to  anty75
1 month ago

Sarah Sjostrom
World Records (LCM)
Women’s 50 meter freestyle – 1
Women’s 100 meter freestyle – 1
Women’s 100 meter butterfly – 5

Emma McKeon
World Records (LCM)
Women’s 50 meter freestyle – 0
Women’s 100 meter freestyle – 0
Women’s 100 meter butterfly – 0

Robbos
Reply to  anty75
1 month ago

Sarah no 1 time 51.71 in a relay lead that ended 5th in WC
Emma no 1 time 51.96, 2nd fastest time ever, in Olympic final to win gold.
Sarah no 2 time 52.08 Mare Norstom
Emma no 2 time 52.13 Olympic prelims
Sarah no 3 time 52.23 in relay lead that ended 6th in WC
Emma no 3 time 52.19 Olympic trials.

So Sarah great at relays where Sweden can’t win, no pressure & small meet.
Emma’s best swims on the biggest stage with most pressure.

Oh talking relays, Emma, swims 51.35 relay split, 5th fastest ever, behind the 4 from Cate Campbell, the greatest relay swimmer of all time, to win gold.

Last edited 1 month ago by Robbos
Smith-Jacoby-Huske-Weitzeil
Reply to  Sub13
1 month ago

1. Whoop-dee-doo!

Funny how no one ever mentions the All-Time Top Relay Splits in the women’s 4 x 200 meter freestyle relay:

Pellegrini – 1:53.54 (2009)
Ledecky – 1:53.74 (2016)
Ledecky – 1:53.76 (2021)
Ledecky – 1:53.84 (2018)
Ledecky – 1:54.02 (2017)
Ruck – 1:54.08 (2018)
Schmitt – 1:54.09 (2012)
Schmitt – 1:54.21 (2009)
Franklin – 1:54.27 (2013)
Titmus – 1:54.27 (2019)

Emma McKeon does not even land in the Top Ten (10). Once again, Federica Pellegrini outshines Emma McKeon.

Sub13
Reply to  Smith-Jacoby-Huske-Weitzeil
1 month ago

Pellegrini’s only time in the top 10 was in a super suit lol. You’re using her ONE split in the top 10 that was in a super suit? Really?

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Braden Keith is the Editor-in-Chief and a co-founder/co-owner of SwimSwam.com. He first got his feet wet by building The Swimmers' Circle beginning in January 2010, and now comes to SwimSwam to use that experience and help build a new leader in the sport of swimming. Aside from his life on the InterWet, …

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