Former WR Holder Li Zhesi Banned for Two Years for Positive EPO Test

  100 Braden Keith | January 29th, 2013 | Featured, International, News

pinit fg en rect gray 28 Former WR Holder Li Zhesi Banned for Two Years for Positive EPO Test

17-year old Li Zhesi of China has been banned for two years for testing positive for EPO, FINA revealed today.

Zhesi tested positive for the substance in March of 2012 in an out-of-competition test conducted by Chinese Swimming and CHINADA: China’s anti-doping agency, and the positive result earned a two year suspension for both her and her coach.

This positive test was first reported by the Associated Press in June, and the ongoing deliberations caused Zhesi to be left off of China’s Olympic team. In 2009, at only 14 years old, Zhesi swam a 52.81 medley relay anchor that rolled China to a World Record in the 400 medley relay: one that stood until this year’s Olympics when the Americans broke it.

Zhesi’s coach was not specifically named, but it is not uncommon for Chinese coaches to be banned along with their athletes. In 2010, at least three Chinese coaches were banned for the actions of their athletes.

EPO is a hormone that increases the body’s production of red blood cells, and is the same substance that Lance Armstrong recently admitted to using en route to his 7 Tour de France titles.

Zhesi was ranked as the #20 100 freestyler in the world in 2011, and the second-best in a struggling Chinese sprint group. The Chinese have a long history of doping, though their aquatics athletes came through relatively cleanly in 2012; Zhesi is the first public positive test out of the country for the year, though undoubtedly it is also the most significant.

Comments

  1. Ben says:
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    kind of makes you wonder about Ye Shiwen

    • Rafael says:
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      please not this again..

    • coacherik says:
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      Actually, it doesn’t.

      At this point, she has not failed a drug test. (I know that doesn’t amount to much for many of you out there, because she COULD be on something that is undetectable. Could doesn’t mean she is, Mr. Leonard)

      And unlike Armstrong strong-arming people in the cycling world, I would hope and expect FINA and WADA to stand against a country, its coaches and athletes for repeated doping offenses like China has due to their centrally controlled training and past systemic doping.

      • Josh says:
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        They did both swim for the same team though. Teams are extremely insular there in that they live together, train together, eat sleep and swim together without any real autonomy. You would have to believe that if one was doing something, everyone else would have known about it.

      • Ben says:
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        who is mr Leonard?

    • European says:
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      Kinda makes you wonder abou michael phelps.ryan lochte.

      • Hon says:
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        European, the structure of the Chinese swimming system is the only reason that a positive Chinese test raises suspicions about other Chinese swimmers. The state-sponsored, systematic manner in which China develops Olympic talent bears resemblance to the East German system. These observable similarities do not necessarily indicate systematic doping, but they naturally provoke western suspicions. Team USA is unburdened by these suspicions not because of racism but because of ideology. The free, open market and recreational structure of USA Swimming bears absolutely no resemblance to a state-sponsored swimming factory. As a result, the same logic that some people use to cast doubt on Ye Shiwen’s accomplishments cannot be applied to the cases of Michael Phelps and Ryan Lochte

        • PsychoDad says:
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          Unless you think “recreational” is key word here, free and open market does not prevent baseball and football players to get dopped out of their minds. You are not very smart, huh, capitalist?

          • ChestRockwell says:
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            Speaking of smart, it is “doped” not “dopped.” If you are going to question someone’s intelligence, you might want to proof read your shit.

          • Hon says:
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            I was merely commenting on why Americans think the way they think. I believe that Ye Shiwen is clean. I also believe, however, that the Chinese system– a system that strips young Olympic prospects from their families–is unethical. It is this unethical nature that makes the Chinese system as a whole worthy of suspicion.

          • Rafael says:
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            Hon

            The US system is much the same way,

            The different thing is that on China the kid is taken.. on US the child is much time forced by the family or coaches or on empty promises of Money.

            How Many scandals of abuse by parents coaches were seen? That is not any better than what some other countries do..

          • Hon says:
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            Allow me to explain why the mode of organization is important. The highly regimented, East German structure of Chinese swimming more easily facillitates systematic doping. While it is true that RL or MP could easily dope in a free market system, the structure of USA Swimming does not facillitate systematic doping. That means if RL doped, it is not any more likely that MP doped, and if MP doped it isn’t any more likely that RL doped. As we saw with the East Germans, a culture of doping can easily spread within a highly-structured national team. Because USA Swimming is comprised of a very loose confederation of independent teams, it is less likely that national team coaches could introduce or promote a widespread culture of doping.

      • beachmouse says:
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        Meaning that they were probably toking up together at some point? Wouldn’t be surprised since they often seemed to be a mismatched but package deal.

        • Hon says:
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          Who are “they”?

        • Hon says:
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          Michael Phelps and Ryan Lochte? Look, I’m just as tired of these sarcastic counter-accusations as I am of the original accusations. Such counter-accusations reflect a shallow understandinf of the history and motivations behind Mr. Leonard’s accusations. Once you understand the reasons behind his suspicions, you may rebuke him more effectively.

          • Rafael says:
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            What is Leonard motivation? please inform everyone.. HIS REAL intentions.. not the ones he told the media..

    • Justin Thompson says:
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      I second that…only a matter of time before she is busted Mrs. I swim my last 100 in the 400IM faster than Lochte!

  2. Chris says:
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    I can hear Craig Lord cracking his knuckles across the ocean…

  3. Robin says:
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    I’m glad the coach is banned as well, since I’m not sure a minor in the Chinese national program would have all that much power to say no to being told to take something, even if she were informed about what that substance was. Sorry if that seems harsh but China’s program has bought that reputation for itself through decades.

  4. Bill says:
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    John Leonard, please keep your mouth shut. Don’t try and speak for all US coaches.

    • coacherik says:
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      Agreed.

    • testudo says:
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      what if it turns out John Leonard is right? Anyone who is familiar with professional sports knows how rampant PED’s are. Why are we to believe swimming is any different? You can’t watch Ye Shiwen’s race and honestly say that you have no suspicions. maybe someone in his position shouldn’t say something like that, but I disagree. I’m sick of shooting the messenger when it concerns PED accusations. it almost always turns out that the messenger was right in cases like this.

      • coacherik says:
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        Just because Lance Armstrong was a giant bag-o-douche for over a decade about his drug use and those who came out against him were vindicated, doesn’t mean that all those who have thrown out public accusations around are right more often than not. Leonard could very easily have just let WADA do its job and kept his mouth shut. Doing what he did was pretty unprofessional in most people’s books.

        Did anyone who has brought up this final 50 split by Ye watch Lochte’s final 50? He shut down AT LEAST the last 15 meters and glided slowly into the finish.

        If there is a test that surfaces that says she was doping prior to or during London, then I will have no problem saying I was wrong. The issue with all the grandstanding, posturing, and preaching by those who are supposedly respected in the sport that she cheated before she has been found to have cheated isn’t necessarily fair.

        What do you get out of it if you are right after all the public bashing? Bragging rights? A gold star? Clout on a website thread?

        • testudo says:
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          Look, I thought she looked suspicious before I even saw any of the splits. Lochte may have coasted in a little, but she also outsplit multiple other male swimmers in that race who weren’t coasting. If you can find any Olympic race in the last twenty years where a female outsplit multiple males in the same race, please let me know.

          I respect someone like John Leonard for calling it out as suspicious. BECAUSE IT WAS. A country with a history of doping, a teammate testing positive, an unreal swim……cmon. again, people like John Leonard are very high up and in the loop, yet people continue to shoot the messenger.

          • Rafael says:
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            Rebecca Adlington 800 free WR were faster than locthe Split

            Federica pellegrini 400 WR also If I am not wrong..

          • testudo says:
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            not the same event.

          • Philip Johnson says:
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            and the suits.

          • coacherik says:
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            Agreed, aswimfan. Where was he when Ledecky shocked the world in the 800? Granted she didn’t beat any male distance swimmers, but her swim was just as unreal. How come he isn’t going after her?

            I have a problem with the man because he is hypocritical. I was in the coaches meeting in 2010 when he came in, banging the podium like his pulpit, asking for rallying to end FINA and the suits. Calling it the most important, while ignoring the fact children were being abused. Not once was he as outraged or vocal about protecting children, just protecting the sport.

            He didn’t have to go on the record like that. He doesn’t have to play dumb, but show some class. USA Seimming thought the same when they released a statement saying Leonard didn’t represent Team USA.

          • aswimfan says:
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            phillip johnson,

            rebecca adlington’s last 100 in 2011 shanghai was faster than lochte’s.

            and it was the same suit. textile.

            check it out.

      • aswimfan says:
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        If Ye Shiwen is suspect, then so is Katie Ledecky.

    • jman says:
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      Hmmm, I thought this was the USA, not North Korea.

  5. Jordan says:
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    So Ye Shiwen is faster than Lochte the last 50 split on the 4IM? That makes me think she is not clean (allegedly). Regardless, China is factory for cheating the system. Proof is 94′ Rome World Champs. I admit they have improved at “flying below the radar”.

  6. Jordan says:
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    So Ye Shiwen is faster than Lochte the last 50 split on the 4IM? That makes me think she is not clean (allegedly). Regardless, China is a factory for cheating the system. Proof is the 94′ Rome World Champs. I admit they have improved at “flying below the radar”.

    • coacherik says:
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      I take you do not follow swimming all that closely? That was big news in August…

      • Jordan says:
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        Not trying to “break news” Erik, just providing an example. I apologize it wasn’t current. I said she was cheating (allegedly) the moment she pulled away from beisel. I’ve never seen that happen to a world champ leading into an Olympic 400im. No woman on this planet has ever held that speed and Ye blew the lid off the last 50. (28.mid) and she is a kid. Lol is that “expert” enough?

        • Rafael says:
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          So Ledecky could be cheating when she began pulling away EASILY from the field on 800 free??

          • Jordan says:
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            That race was won long before the last 50

          • Rafael says:
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            But Who was ledecky one year before the Olympic?? She Came OUT of nowhere, while Ye was already World Champion!

            But because Ledecky is from USA it is ok already right? It just seem like.. ow my the people from other country are doing amazing thing that Just MY country should be able.. so let´s bash them and never raise ANY eyebrows when athletes from MY country do something amazing..

          • Jordan says:
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            Janet Evans came out of nowhere as well :) big difference in a 4im and 800 free.
            Don’t take it personal. Doesn’t help your argument.

          • Justin Thompson says:
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            Ledecky could be cheating, but I would bet my left nut she isn’t:)

        • coacherik says:
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          Just because it has never been seen before, doesn’t mean it isn’t possible. True there is PED use in every sport, but to say something like that can’t happen takes away what makes sports so incredible.

          Or that “experts” thought women’s bodies would not be able to handle the rigors of certain sports?
          How about that 4 minutes mile Bannister ran?
          Lezak’s 400 FR anchor leg?

          There were many people who thought records would not be broken after the speed suits and at the very least not for a long time. How long did we have to wait, 3 years for Lochte’s 200IM? Maybe he cheats?… (Settle down team reezy, I’m a fan of his swimming)

    • PsychoDad says:
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      At least this was reported by CHINADA and I believe Chinese really want to clean up the swimming sport of steroids. We will see whether she will serve 2 years or perhaps reinstated after a year like Jesica Hardy because “she **explained** to the American Arbitration Association that her positive test was a result of a tainted nutritional supplement.”

  7. ilswimcoach says:
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    Does this have any ramifications for the World Championship that she won? I would think that the title ought to be stripped, but I’m not sure how FINA works on that front.

    • Braden Keith Braden Keith says:
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      Ilswimcoach – no it doesn’t. It would have to be a really extraordinary case, like Armstrong’s, to bring avout discussion of stripping titles earned before the positive test in any sport, not just swimming. There would have to be evidence that she was doping then and just didn’t get caught.

  8. StuartC says:
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    2-year bans for something like EPO usage is stupid. Swims have already been done, best times swum, records broken, medals won, money awarded by governments etc. etc. What is needed is a life time ban from competitive swimming. At age 19 she can come back in time for the next Olympics and win Gold and be rewarded – plenty is wrong with these types of bans!!

    BTW: EPO cannot be accidentally in a Vitamin formula or drink for example. You have to know about it, purchase it, intentionally use it and then seek to cover it up.

    For severe cheating (like EPO use), life time bans are the only way to scare athletes away from any thought of cheating!

    • Jordan says:
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      I agree. The way it is set up actually encourages systematic cheating. Surprised Cesar hasn’t been brought up.

    • Rafael says:
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      I agree with Lifetime

      But when would you begin that rule? IF you decide to begin it at the judgement of any athlete to make him an example.. would that be fair or not?? Would we make that retroactive??

      If any rule should be passed it should be before anyone is under trial, or everyone who was caughe during the discussion should not be judged under new laws..

  9. testudo says:
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    Just a general question for Braden or anyone in the know to research. How often are top level swimmers tested out of competition? and are they being blood tested or just urine tests? A common thing people like Victor Conte say is that most professional athletes use things like EPO and testosterone as training drugs. they’re obviously smart enough not to have stuff like that in their system when they know they’re going to be tested. so are FINA and WADA doing the job in terms of unannounced out of competition blood testing?

    • Chris DeSantis says:
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      I know the USADA website has a search engine whereby you can see how many times athletes were tested.

      • testudo says:
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        thanks, just checked it out. though couldn’t find if it specified whether they were blood or urine tests. there is a big difference. would love to see Swimming get out in front on this issue and even adopt the Bio Passport as well.

    • NOT_AN_EXPERT says:
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      There is some information on USASwimming.org. Go to Tips & Training, then Doping Control and then Testing. There was also an article in USAToday on 5/23/2012 on Missy Franklin titled “For Missy Franklin, drug testing is part of her routine” that provides some insights into the drug testing that elite athletes may be subject to.

    • Brian says:
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      From USA Swimming, a lot. Out of competition drug testing, you have to keep officials appraised of your whereabouts at all times. They can show up and it’s pee in a cup/blood sample time. Failure to appear counts against you as a positive test, if that’s what I remember.

      Which is also why you don’t see other countries questioning the US as a swimming power. Our testing is through the roof above what any other governing body does.

      • Chris DeSantis says:
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        Just want to note that most countries’ drug test out of competition and require athletes to keep precise details on their whereabouts. Many of the foreign born athletes that are training at US colleges are actually tested by USADA, because their national governing bodies subcontract USADA to drug test their athletes while they are in the US.

  10. Peeterdeeter says:
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    I personally know two ex-Chinese national team swimmers. Each has said PED use is virtually a 100% likelihood for all involved in that program. One, somewhat famously(well, in the swimming world), failed a test for I believe dihyrdotestosterone, and has started her own club team in the US with pretty good results over a decade on from that event. The more you ask around, the more you know. A lot of people in this thread just closing their eyes and refusing to ask around, hoping their version of reality works out. Not sayin them in particular, but guys like Leonard and Lord often take a beating, sometimes legally and financially, for telling the truth to those that prefer dissonance. The latter being a particularly vicious and unrelenting type of people, who when the truth comes out rarely live up to their participation in silencing and even ruining the whistle-blowing truth-tellers.

  11. swimright says:
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    Whenever an athletic performance seems to good to be true……….it probably is.

  12. bobby says:
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    The fact of the matter is that the ones who cheat get caught or at least eventually get caught in this case. You should not accuse people of cheating until they are caught. Most swimmers are actually very hard working so it isn’t fair to accuse without evidence.

    • testudo says:
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      this statement has no basis in reality. beating drug tests is not very difficult in their current form. most cheaters actually don’t get caught. of course swimmers work hard. in fact, swimmers who use PED’s actually have the ability to work even harder. In our current climate of professional sports, I fail to see how swimmers are just morally better than other sports and don’t resort to the culture involved in EVERY other professional sport. Especially given that there is more money for swimmers than ever before.

      • Hon says:
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        This statement is, actually, fairly accurate. It’s not that elite swimmers are morally a cut above everybody else. It’s just that testing is better in swimming than in most other sports. I can attest to this as a close friend of an super-elite swimmer. In addition, I think that doping is less relevant in swimming because swimmers have 100s of other ways to get an edge–whether that’s through technique adjustments, new suits/equipment (maybe not so much now, but in 2009), better nutrition or dryland.

        • testudo says:
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          regarding the technique, better equipment, better nutrition comment: you could say that about just every other sport and they still try to find shortcuts.

          Olympic testing is certainly better than the inept policies of leagues like the NFL and NBA, but the testers are still clearly behind the dopers. not to mention, Swimming has a long history of PED usage.

          • Hon says:
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            Yes, but I would say that the gains in technique in swimming in the past 20 years or so far outstrip the gains in technique in the vast majority of other sports. Heck, just YouTube the Athens Olympics. I agree that swimming has had a long history of PED usage, but I think that the huge gains in technique have very convincingly shown that clean swimmers can beat doped-up swimmers.

            The very fact that swimmers are testing positive for EPO now shows how much the testers have caught up. In-competition blood testing is way more effective than you give it credit for.

          • Barry says:
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            Agree on the better equipment, training, coaching, etc. comments. Swimming has evolved and the swimmers adapt.

          • testudo says:
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            a swimmer with great technique doesn’t beat a swimmer with great technique who is also on EPO. though to your point, I do think it is possible for a clean swimmer to beat a doped one through superior technique.

            I’m not a believer in in-competition testing being effective. it’s more of an IQ test. you have to be pretty careless to fail when you know they are testing you. unannounced blood testing during heavy training periods is what would be really effective.

          • Barry says:
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            There are no shortcuts in swimming. You either do the work or you don’t. Also you must remember that the elite swimmers are tested very frequently out of competition. See USADA individual test number history here http://www.usada.org/athlete-test-history.

          • Ben says:
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            but in competition testing gives you a profile for what the person has in their system at the time. If the “right” (obviously its wrong…) combination of drugs is taken, they can greatly enhance work capacity during training and be stopped in plenty of time for the bio markers to disappear…but the swimmer (or athlete in any sport) still gets the benefit of the training.

            For sake of argument… lets just say that China is giving drugs to all of their athletes (hypothetically)… if they were, it would also be in their best interest to be to be constantly testing them to see if the masking agents were working..etc to see if they could pass the WADA tests. It would also look good from a PR perspective if every once in a while they “caught” someone and made it seem like they were making a good faith effort to stop doping.

            The testing that is done currently sucks at detection and any scientists in the know will tell you that: http://greglemond.com/blog/how-accurate-are-ped-tests/

            I think we should test everyone more stringently… China should be tested more.. Ledecky should be tested. The reason I think Phelps didn’t cheat is because he signed up for Project Believe but heck even he should be tested more.

          • Hon says:
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            My apologies, Testudo, I meant to say out of competion testing, not in-competition testing.

          • Hon says:
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            And Ben, for Pete’s sake, Ledecky has been tested many, many times. In competition and out. I’m on her team. I find it ironic that she is the response to Ye Shiwen accusations because she is the cleanest person in the sport. I know that she spends hours meticulously updating USADA on her whereabouts. Maybe it’s because it’s so obvious that she’s clean that some people sarcastically bring up her name in these forums.

          • coacherik says:
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            Hon, it’s not being brought up sarcastically, it’s the accusation of a young swimmer doing something other-worldly. She swam out of her mind, dropped a ton of time and nearly beat a suited record. If we can be suspicious of Ye, why can’t we be of Ledecky? I believe she is clean, but most people on this thread aren’t with the athlete in question 24/7 so we sit her and throw crap around because we are protected by our computer screen and anonymous handle.

          • Brian says:
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            @Erik Because Ledecky wasn’t beating, or coming close to beating any male splits during her race.

          • coacherik says:
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            A single 50, that’s it! It wasn’t an outlandish 50 split at that, 28.mid?

            I know she didn’t best any male distance swimmers splits, but her race was incredible, nonetheless.

            Found this on the BBC, turns out its happened before:

            http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-19116749

            “The comparison with Lochte just isn’t that telling. It’s not the first time that Lochte has been slower than a woman over the last leg of that race. In Beijing in 2008 when he won bronze, he was slower than the Italian Alessia Fillipi – by more than half a second – and she only came fifth in her own race.”

            There a couple of other interesting points in this article, all of which point this being an extraordinary swim, but at this point, nothing more than that.

          • aswimfan says:
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            coach henrik,

            Shiwen’s was only 28.93. yes, a single 50 split.
            and in fact, Adlington split 28.91 at the end of a long 800 free in 2011 Shangg\hai.

    • beachmouse says:
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      The innocence is almost touching. If you look at the history of the sport, the odds of getting caught while doped our of your mind are quite low. Few countries will aggressively do their own comprehensive out of competition testing like the US does, often amid claims that they don’t have the budget to do so, and WADA doesn’t test often enough out of competition to really get the abusers.

      If Germany hadn’t gone through a massive truth & reconciliation effort during and after reunification, FINA would have gladly continued to claim that the East German women swam clean and that only ‘haters’ would claim otherwise. Plenty of other athletes out there whose doping violations have been massively covered up by their federations over the years. Look at the womens records in track & field and how many of them from the 1980s when drug testing was more primitive remain.

  13. Philip Johnson says:
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    fact of the matter is, Ye or Ledecky has never tested positive for any performance enhancing drugs. but Li has, so why are we talking about those two? it’s unfair to the swimmers. let’s just enjoy the sport!

  14. Swimguy says:
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    How sad! Drug test should be actively enforced. There are so many who filed TUE and have been taking banned drugs while competition. Innocent swimmer don’t know why they swim so fast. Unfair!

  15. coach t says:
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    does anyone know if there is regular testing of college swimmers? i’m told by a swimmer friend on a top 20 team, that there is a group on the team (sprinters) where PED use is common practice. if there is no testing, what’s to stop it?

    • PsychoDad says:
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      Coach T, we already established that thefree and open market and recreational structure of swimming in the USA do not allow/support use of PED. So, I believe your friend has wrong information. In those rare cases, Jesica Hardy for example, where testing mistakes happen, swimmers explains nicely that their brownies were contaminated by banned substances, and everything is cleared.

      Kiddin’ aside… Chinese were doped out of their minds in the past. China is now a swimming power and can compete with the USA and others the right way – without systematic cheating. It is not in their interest to cheat (or be caught) and continue to be dismissed as cheaters. They do not need that now as they needed years ago.

      • Hon says:
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        Psychodad, that’s not what I argued. I argued that the structure of Chinese swimming could facillitate doping in a *systematic* fashion. Emphasis on systematic. I do believe that doping is very possible within USA Swimming, but the independent nature of the programs that comprise USA Swimming means that one team’s or athlete’s doping in the US does not raise questions about the overall integrity of US Swimming as a unit. Unfortunately, the more organized and focused structure of Chinese swimming–a structure in which overly-ambitious coaches may be the biggest adult presences in young swimmers’ lives, by the way–means that one bad apple on the Chinese national team can more easily spoil the reputations of other Chinese swimmers.

    • SEC_G8R says:
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      When I was at Florida (95-99), I was tested around once every six weeks through the university.

  16. guyswimfan says:
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    Is there any way we can check who have filed TUE?
    Some of them are talking advantage of it. At least other “clean and innocent” swimmers should know who are those under TUE because they are frustrated why the banned drug takers are swimming so fast. Some of who are under ADHD and some other symptoms.

  17. JG says:
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    Unfortunately the USA is highly discredited also by its rash of very high profile drug cheats 99 – 2008. These were massive names eg L ance Marion & the usual horde of T& F stars – simply to many to recall.

    I find it difficult to believe any American result of any sport during that period. There has to be some effects of high level coverups & this is the most objective unemotional thing I can do – just accept it & hope it is cleaner.

    I have to extend that to China also & any other doper nation. We must remember that testing is extremely expensive & money is tight. Did you realize that the head of WADA. Is an honorary position? How can someone on that footing take on the big monied sports ? They can’t , so it is mostly bluff.

    Specifically to Katie Ledecky – she reminds me of a young Tracey Wickham – except Tracey negative splitted. Without Moscow & her family breakdown , Tracey could have been 4.03 & 8.15 .

    As regards Ye – she is quite a traditional 400 imer without a w/c individual event. Some of thee swimmers can pull out a 100 split with their race that is surprising . I recall hoff’s stunning 1 .15 breastroke. For someone not a breastroker that is unreal. Miley is one of those 200 breastrokers who can virtually double up the 2nd 100 with very little drop off. However she. Does not gt near 1.15.

    Another thing to look at is ye’s 200 I’m. Her final 50 was 29.3 , against Alicia’s 29.8. Alicia has assorted times eg 100 free 53.6 / 200 free 1.56 /50 ba 28.9 / 50 br 31.7 / & Olympic & world fly medals , plus an earlier 200 fly background ( 2.09 -2007) . Alicia is. Strength swimmer more than a flat sprinter yet Ye w able to mow her down .

    Looking at the recent AYOFs with the well trained & early peakers Japan – the 17 year old winner of the 400im is a little behind Ye’s free leg for a 4.21. Incidentally the Aust 13 years. Record is held by Hagano , So these kids are no slouches. Also the tactical battle between Mack Horton (& Dai sprinted home barely faster than Ye. These guys are good. Mack is a 50.3 100 freestyler right thru to a 15.04 1500 . He is good yet Ye is up there at the end of. 400 im?

    Unfortunately I also believe that China is too big a power today to take on – similar to USA 10 years ago.

    That is why we always had some poor kid from Kazakhstan to persecute until Borat raised their popularity.

    • PsychoDad says:
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      JG, if ChestRockwell does not commit suicide after reading your post and broken English, I don’t know what else can do it. For your sake, I hope he does not read your post.

      This was, however, very funny and unexpected after the proceeding rant. Well done.

      >That is why we always had some poor kid from Kazakhstan to persecute until Borat >raised their popularity.

      • JG says:
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        Haha. It is only a blog not a thesis & I jhave just come back from a lazy sunshine swim in a gorgeous sea pool . It is the seratonin .

        If I did not have that & had the adrenalin to take on this issue – I think I could muster up an imaginative list of punishments. Don’t get me started Daddyo! :)

  18. JG says:
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    Btw , Alicia does not lack endurance or stamina . she pulled out a – one for the team – 400 Im effort in Perth just 7 secs behind Ye.

    With both swimming the 200 & 400 Ye was. (200 im x 2 ) + 18 secs. Alicia was + 21 . Ye had greater speed at this time of e season due to worlds sc 5 weeks earlier.

    Whatever .

  19. Ben says:
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    lets get a few things straight…

    without even thinking about drugs… it is entirely possible..especially in the 4IM for splits to vary wildly from person to person.

    I’m no elite swimmer, but at a meet last year my free split in 4 IM was 52 or 53 and was the fastest out of everyone, but I only got 10th at the meet and went 4:07 while the kid that won went 3:53… My point is that comparing the last split of a 4im for Shiwen to Lochte is not relevant to anything because Lochte was so much faster for the first 3/4 of the race and not to mention Lochte had no one to push him at the end while Shiwen needed that split if she was going to win. So while I agree that China is almost certainly cheating, I do not think that a 50 split is a relevant argument to that opinion.

  20. Dave Berkoff says:
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    I think the point is that China is a closed society with deplorable history with respect to doping. For John Leonard to say that Ye Shiwen’s performances were suspicious is not racist but rather is quite justified based upon China’s history as a doping leader and the circumstances of her swim. She absolutely destroyed a woman who is a 4:07 400 freestyler and nearly outsplit Lochte who is a 3:49 400 freestyler. I tend to agree with John on this issue.

    The only way to get rid of doping, athetes who are willing to dope, and coaches who have no morals is to impose a death penalty. You get caught with EPO or steroids, you are out for life. If you get caught post-performance (eg Armstrong) the NGB pays a million dollar fine and the athlete should be open to civil damages by those athletes who were affected.

    • Yang Sun says:
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      I’m clean. LoL

    • Nadador says:
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      I second that.

      In the 80’s, the drugs where different I guess, and the chinese women had two distinctive indication of their doping (which was proved later): 1 – they were huge; 2 – their technique was way less than desirable or expected in an elite swimmer.

      I couldn’t get past of how the chinese looked and swam. Just seeing them on the deck, and their terrible technique instantly raised a red flag for me..

      Point number two above is what strikes me the most: poor turns and walls; poor streamline; lack of pull on the breaststroke.. and the list goes on..

      OF COURSE, there are some elite athletes with some terrible technique problems (a male german WR-holder – a suit swimmer, in my opinion.. a chinese WR-holder….). Heck, even Franklin could improve her underwaters…

      • Rafael says:
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        There are Olympic Medalists with techniques that I did not admire at all.. Scherer looked like a psycho hitting the water compared to the fluid swimming of Popov and Borges.

        I also could not be fond of Gary Hall breatj every time I can on a 50 style.. but hey.. it worked pretty well for them..

  21. JG says:
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    Iran has a very special guillotine that cuts off the fingers of thieves.

    For very bad offenders eg Lance I recommend their bus execution. They tie a noose on to the bus shelter – put the guy on top of the bus & fix it & drive off.

    The joy of public transport infrastructure. Multi purpose. Tax payer effective.

  22. Mom says:
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    Y’all are a bunch of jerks for using this article to smear Ledecky – I bet she has been tested a ton , randomly too

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About Braden Keith

The most common question asked about Braden Keith is "when does he sleep?" That's because Braden has, in two years in the game, become one of the most prolific writers in swimming at a level that has earned him the nickname "the machine" in some circles. He first got his feet …

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