Former U.S. national team head coach Mark Schubert has responded to the civil lawsuit filed by Ariana Kukors, denying any wrongdoing and saying he reported rumors of abuse immediately when he heard them.
Kukors filed suit against Schubert, USA Swimming, her former coach Sean Hutchison and others earlier this month. The 2012 Olympian says Hutchison began grooming her when she was 13 and he took over as her coach at age 31. She says Hutchison began sexually abusing her at 16, and that USA Swimming ignored or covered up reports of an inappropriate relationship between her and her coach. Kukors named Schubert in the suit as well, alleging that he observed behaviors at the 2006 Pan Pacific Championships and 2007 World Championships that should have alerted him of an inappropriate coach-swimmer relationship.
Schubert has previously said he heard rumors about Hutchison and Kukors in 2010, and says he reported them to Bill Jewell, the head coach at FAST, the club where the two were training. Jewell has since told the OC Register that he first heard the rumors and brought them to Schubert. Schubert told SwimSwam he heard the rumors and reported them to Jewell in late November of 2010, and said any claims that Jewell first heard the rumors and enlisted Schubert’s help are false.
More background:
- Olympian Ariana Kukors Accuses Former Coach Sean Hutchison of Sexual Abuse
- Ariana Kukors Opens Up With Details About Hutchison Abuse Allegations
- Sean Hutchison Denies Kukors’ Abuse Allegations In Statement
- USA Swimming Investigated Hutchison/Kukors In 2010, Statement Confirms
- Mark Schubert Says He Reported Hutchison/Kukors Rumors To FAST Coach
- SafeSport Director Susan Woessner Resigns, Discloses 2007 Kiss With Hutchison
- Ariana Kukors Files Civil Suit vs. Hutchison, USA Swimming, Schubert
- Kukors Smith: Lawsuit About Prevention, ‘Holding People Accountable’
Schubert himself provided SwimSwam with this statement on Wednesday:
Mark Schubert absolutely denies any wrongdoing. He is confident that when all the facts are known, the record will show that he never ignored, or turned a blind eye to, the abuse of an athlete. When Coach Schubert first became aware of the rumors of abuse, he reported them immediately and sought to make sure they were properly investigated. Coach Schubert had and continues to have no tolerance for anyone who would harm a minor or violate the trust that athletes and their parents place in their coaches.
I’m a swim parent of a 7 and 9 year old. They’ve swum the last two years, are really into it and we’ve found a club team in the area that we’re thrilled with. We trust our coaches, they are wonderful with the kids. Its been a very positive environment with great communication. That’s what every parent is looking for.
I’ve read stories and followed media reports on gymanasts and other youth sports. Today I did a simple google search of Mark Schubert Swim Coach. Among the accolades, I learned he was dismissed as the head of US Swimming, had allegations of abuse at a previous employer and now this. How is someone with this type of history, in… Read more »
Here are a couple thoughts …1 – He was dismissed by a CEO who maybe had no business being CEO and maybe did more to deny victims’ rights than anyone. If you are of that belief, then yay for Mark. 2 – “had allegations of abuse …” ALLEGATIONS. Are you saying any coach who has been alleged of wrong-doing should be done? He could probably line up dozens or hundreds of women who would speak on his behalf on what he did to empower them as women. It’s hard to know for any of us … but this is why I said earlier that allegations are so dangerous because innocent or not, it’s so hard to come back form it… Read more »
He maybe has some guilt by association but in his defense he has a super long career with maybe just a couple misjudgements in it that really arent directly related to coaching kids but more like personnel issues or poor management decisions
Their pipeline of swimmers is pretty weak after Kim, Epps and Brinegar go off to college. What place did they get at winter juniors? He may be done soon anyway.
Lexvold, Brune and Macy will be back to name just three off the top of my head. MVN and Schubert will be just fine without you, thanks.
Okay. But explain this thing where swimmers who train elsewhere are entering meets and representing MVN. That’s another weird management type decision that Schubert has done. Is he using club money to pay these other swimmers? Why else would they do this?
Wow, you really just have an ax to grind, don’t you?
So you’re saying that when a college swimmer or post grad with ties to the coach or the team represents that team it’s a bad thing? No rules are broken. Often times it’s done as a thank you or sign of respect. Other times it’s done to help the swimmer get a travel reimbursement from the LSC. Either scenario, it can and usually is mutually beneficial.
Welcome to USA Swimming! That’s how they roll!
Let me simply state that I’ve known Schubert a very long time, and he’s an honorable person, family man, and really excellent coach. I wouldn’t hesitate to have my children swim for him. He doesn’t pander to narcissistic swimmers but he gets excellent results. Literally hundreds of great swimmers think very highly of him.
Michelle/OldSwimmer – please adhere to the SwimSwam commenting policies about not using multiple user names within the same conversation. Thank you.
Braden, I post as Oldswimmer but this is not my comment.
Is this comment a koan?
Patrick—I had to look up Koan—haha. Just referring to the OldSwimmer comment above Braden Keith’s — that is not me but we’re using the same username.
This is what is said about every person accused of sexual harassment/sexual assault. Just because you had a good relationship with him, just because he has a nice family, and just because he is a good swim coach does not mean that he hasn’t done anything inappropriate with someone else. I am not accusing Mr. Schubert of anything, but this line of defense is ridiculous.
Schubert covered for Jewell’s sexual harassment at Golden West (and even hired him after he was accused of the same at FAST). Doesn’t surprise me that he looked the other way with AK. Wouldn’t want my kids to be coached by a person with those morals. His time has passed.
I take exception to your comment about a person’s “morals” when you don’t even know him, and you also don’t know the facts involving Jewell. Speaking of Jewell you also commented that ‘(he) even hired him after he was accused’ – you seem to equate being accused with being found guilty, which is certainly a leap in our legal system. Schubert states that he reported the rumors when he heard them, and a PI was hired which should be quite easy to verify by payment records, reports and a deposition.
100% honest, legit question (and maybe Swim Swam or Chris D or Concussion can do an article with the answers)-
Taking the Ari situation and putting it into practice today: As a coach, if I see a coach sitting closely with a swimmer at a meet and I have a gut feeling (no concrete evidence) that something is off, what am I supposed to do? I know that there is an answer in terms of liability and a deeper answer in terms of how to help the swimmer or prevent harm. The swimmer’s safety is priority #1.
If I were on deck and saw Ari and Sean sitting really close, other than contacting the USOC, I’m not sure what else… Read more »
Hi, I just e-mailed you a response but here it is copied: “Hi,
I saw your comment and I swear I was going to respond, but life moves fast and I didn’t do so. So thanks for following up. My personal advice would be as follows
1) I would speak directly to that athlete and tell them that if they are being abused that you will fight for them. You might find them flustered by this in the moment, or even defensive, but in speaking with some victims they often remembered people who at least exhibited some willingness to help them as they struggled along the way. Again, they may not trust you (they have good reason to not… Read more »
One thing you see in the business world I think could apply to swim team dynamics is that when there is fraud occurring by an employee one of the warning signs is that this employee never goes on vacation and never allows anyone to perform their duties. So applying this to swimming, teams should rotate their coaches occasionally and force them to switch training groups for a week or two at a time or just give them a mandatory week off during the season. This gives the kids an opportunity to train under other coaches and interact with them and also if there was a problem give the kid some breathing room. Make the coach skip a meet once in… Read more »
Good suggestions.
Nice suggestion! Definitely one coach should not be the sole source of anything.
If she had gone to a ncaa college on a swim scholarship she would have made the break . I recall commenters praising her for foregoing a big college & how great it was that he was volunteering for Washington State University to coach her . This is not a figment of my imagination , tho I do not think it was SwSw.
I did no’t really know who AK was at the time but she certainly had ( male) fans . In fact other than the supersuit fluke , I really don’t know what she did swim wise . Anyhow she is now famous .
She went to University of Washington, not Washington State University.
Whichever is not the point although logically it would be the one closest to King Aquatics . It just struck me at the time as being obsessive behaviour . I note Washington University is not on the list being sued or is it ?
It does put more responsibility on her parents however .
Its University of Washington in Seattle. Washington University is in St Louis. Washington State is in Pullman.
Exactly he convinced her and her family he was irreplacable as the only one who could coach her. I wonder if we went back and examined other known cases of long term abuse, we could see a similar pattern of age group coach trying(and succeeding) to maintain control of the swimmer once they turn 18 and would normally be leaving the team and the coaches control.
How about when a coach gets promoted to a higher training within a club and he immediately wants your swimmer to move up with him? Most kids and parents are ecstatic at this opportunity and see it as a positive but maybe it is a warning sign.
This is something for Americans to consider . It seems very odd to me that a teen would not want to go away . Surelt she would have had the pick of colleges . If I had to retro choose , Florida or USC for that time would have been great .
Many teens do not want to go away. This is a poor comment.
That is something for Americans to consider , given there is a trillion $ industry to send them away to college.
As Roseann told Darlene when she asked about her college fund , we do not have one & you can go to Community College . The life of a working class kid .
delete
So you see a coach sitting close to one of their swimmers–perhaps consoling them after a missed cut–and your first reaction is to go up to the swimmer and allege/suggest that some kind of abuse is going on? Sorry, but I would consider that to be in violation of the USA Swimming Code of Conduct section 305.13:
“Action…by a coach…either through direct contact with an athlete
or the encouragement of others, to recruit or otherwise encourage an athlete who is already a member of a
USA Swimming member swim club to leave that club, unless the acting party receives prior written approval to
recruit or encourage the athlete to change affiliation from the designated club representative of… Read more »
No different now than then. If you’re a coach then you’ve already accepted and are obligated to a higher level responsibility to inquire and report. When confronted with such questionable situations too many people simply turn their heads away. Too many people are more worried about their swim jobs than making the right call. If you seriously don’t know what to do in this situation then Safe Swim training has failed us all… do us all a favor and get out of swimming before you fail MY children. Don’t listen to the apologists for coaches behavior…they either lack courage courage to report or have their own issues.
If you are aware of something terrible then say something, do something,… Read more »
While everything you write is true, you aren’t answering COACH’s question. You write “If you are aware of something terrible, then say something…” but I think COACH’s point was that it’s hard to tell whether you are seeing something terrible. Did that coach give a swimmer a hug because the swimmer just accomplished something great and the coach was excited for the swimmer or were they grooming the swimmer? Is that coach talking quietly to the swimmer because the swimmer is upset and needs guidance or were they whispering inappropriate comments to the swimmer? It can be hard to tell sometimes, especially when you are on a pool deck at a swim meet trying to coach your own swimmers. COACH… Read more »
Agreed. The heck with SafeSport, Administrative Board of Review panels, Club Boards, etc. If you are certain of your concerns, Go straight to the police. When children and their safety, the safety of adults around you and your own safety are in question, get out of the tangles of organized sport and go to the authorities.
Yeah. Because police really take rape and sexual misconduct cases more seriously. (Sarcasm).
OC Swim Dad: Did you even read the question?
According to the brilliant folks at USA swimming, as a USA swimming adult member, you have 24 hours to report the abuse, else you risk criminal prosecution.
Where were her parents in all of this?
You keep asking the same question here and it demonstrates profound ignorance. We get it, the state of parenting in American is bad, but responsibility for this crime doesn’t land on the parents. It lands on the grown man who took advantage of a child. Full stop. A skillful groomer can do the dance right in front of your face and you’d never know. I pray it doesn’t happen to you.
His question is probably appropriate in this context. Absolutely, the responsibility lands on the grown man who took advantage of a child. However, that being said, Schubert was not that man. He may have had some responsibility in a supervisory and protective role, but the same is true of her parents.
I feel like spreading allegations as facts also “demonstrates profound ignorance”
Doing things that parents do with 3 children that swim–driving, cooking, working, all those types of things. Probably the last thing they suspected was the coach had other ‘plans’ with one of their daughters. It was kept hidden away.
Hutchison says “Kukors’ family was aware of their relationship.”
~https://www.seattlepi.com/seattlenews/article/Ariana-Kukors-Sean-Hutchison-Coach-Sex-Abuse-12560109.php
Also the age of consent in Washington is 16, which is when this article and others have said the relationship started. (excluding alledged ‘grooming’)
Omg!!! How do people NOT understand, that there is not concent at any age, when a person has been groomed/ and or, the person is in a place of power or trust!
Age doesn’t matter!
12swim – the age of consent issue would be a factor in a criminal lawsuit, but not in a civil suit like the one Kukors has filed. Civil suits are not based on crimes but on torts.
“No, I told you first, no you didn’t, I told you first.”
How does Schubert believe that he did what’s best for Dagny Knutson?
How does that have anything to do with this? Focus on the ball.
Maybe read his statement he provided to Swimswam in the article we’re commenting on? “Throughout his career, Coach Schubert has always placed what is best for the athletes first and foremost.”
What about Katie Ziegler?
The better question: why is Mark Schubert referring to himself in the third person?
Coach doesn’t have the answer. Maybe it was drafted by his lawyer and sent in on his behalf.
I don’t know who wrote the statement, but coach Schubert is the one who sent it to us.
There should be absolutely no statement from anyone. A “no comment” is really the best statement that anyone can make in these circumstances.
“There should be absolutely no statement from anyone. A “no comment” is really the best statement that anyone can make in these circumstances,” Said The Lawyer..
Anyone else sick of having lawyers running youth sports… Or running anything for that matter?
Hedging risk instead of addressing issues; worrying about outcomes instead of process. Protecting arses instead of doing the right thing. Settling out of court with gag orders rather that solving problems, sharing the lessons learned, and implementing safeguards.
I think Shakespeare had it right a few hundred years ago.
I might have tended to agree with you a few years ago, but not anymore. Not in this age of social media and mob mentality where people with no facts and with varying personal agendas want to be the judge, juror and executioner on every matter or issue raised on a social media platform. Due process and innocent until proven otherwise are almost foreign principles these days. Raise an issue on social media or in the mainstream media now and an individual is frequently presumed to be guilty. We see more and more lives being destroyed based upon mere allegations.
Agree completely said one Harold Epps.
My comment might be in the wrong section…Im in agreement with JOJONV who speaks Gospel.
Lawyers running youth sports? Where? Perhaps we need some lawyers telling us what the laws are and what we are required to do as Coaches, parents and officials. Of course, the lawyers cannot be insiders who will simply parrot what the old guard/resistant to change types want to hear.
Thank you for asking David Berkhoff. One of my favorite Olympic tv memories is the Berkhoff Blastoff. Had to say it.
Re attorneys
LSCs and member parent boards are stacked with attorneys and when questions are raised about clear cases of abusive coaches with WITNESSES, the LSC has said “there’s nothing we can do”.
Where do I turn, David? Safesport? “Nope. It’s not sexual so we don’t care what this Coach says or does to swimmers, coaches, parents or lifeguards as long as it isn’t sexual. We let the club Board handle this,” said the LSC and SafeSport.
Perhaps the club? Surely they’ve witnessed the abuse vs the mentioned parties, after all the club lost nearly half their… Read more »
A lawyer runs my son’s youth baseball pony league board….and its all messed up. So there, one example.
“If all the year were playing holidays; To sport would be as tedious as to work.”
Absolutely NOT sick! Who do you thinks getting rid of all these predator coaches?
How long did it take all those wonderful USA Swimming attorneys to get rid of the predator coaches? Or perhaps the question is- how many victims were silenced with gag orders thus putying nnocent little girls and boys in the cross hairs of pedophiles???
Do your research. USA swimming has failed children to protect their cushy jobs. And they did it with legal council so yes, they knew how to navigate our legal system and little children were raped as a result of their stellar counsel. That is sick, sick, sick.
“Settling out of court with gag orders” requires 2 parties…. Why didn’t you also say you’re “sick of victims accepting payouts and gag orders rather than solving the problem?”
see. All’s fair in underage rape and sodomy, right! Unless the victim is willing to put him or herself out there like AK, then tough shi7sky, eh? USA Swimming should have publicly excommunicated these coaches.
Go ahead, Guy, hold your position.
How long does it take an 8 year old to recover from their Coach raping them? How many psych sessions? Does it depend on their parent’s insurance company- 20-session max? Does the parent have to choose between warning others and their own child’s mental health? Or does the parent think- I’ll settle with USS/USA Swimming and I can help my kid and the governing body will get rid of the predator.
I think we can do better
What new you talking about JOJONV? You said you sick of lawyers settling out of court. Are you saying you don’t want lawyers to offer settlements? Which then forces the victims to receive nothing or come out in public? Why are you blaming lawyers for settling out of court is what I’m saying. And of course you twist it in to I’m defending underage rape and sodomy. Wow….. You have a very deviant mind.
What I’m saying Guy, is that USA Swimming should have identified and removed all of these coaches once they first sniffed signs of impropriety. Settling out of court allows the victim to be civilly compensated for what happened but this does not absolve these monsters of their crime.
Don’t twist my words and attack me. Reread my posts and come to terms with your justification of out of court settlements and gag orders which allow Coach-pedophiles to continue to have contact with children.
USA swimming failed publicly to acknowledge and address this issue.
Here’s a fun place to start to educate yourself on this issue-
May 31
It took 7 years to prove that USA… Read more »
We’re talking MINORS here. Ones that might just have learned to drive. The settlement of Curl was done by her parents. That poor woman has been suffering all along, and suffering in silence unt when, in her 40s, she came out about it. Sick sick sick, predatory.
Full disclosure, my then 10 year old was on a team of a now banished coach. The coach ‘dated’ a 16 year old. I’m embarrassed to say I sat and talked with him many Sunday mornings at the pool
One of the only things we really know about Mark in this case is that he did hire a PI when he heard the rumors (2010 ish?). Smartly, as it turns out, he knew he couldn’t trust anyone in The Springs to act. I’m not sure he isn’t the only one who tried to do anything at all in real time. If rumors of AK and SH were going around when she was underage (2006 ish), this lawsuit is the first most have heard of it. What do i know, but I would be surprised that Schubert had that kind of inside knowledge then.
Those who victimized AK (or any athlete) – or abetted them can burn. But I would… Read more »