Olympic Trials Finalist Celina Li Commits to Cal

  106 Braden Keith | September 23rd, 2012 | College, College Recruiting, Featured, News

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Celina Li from the Pleasanton Seahawks and Foothill High School (less than an hour’s drive away) has committed to Cal, giving the two-time defending champion Cal Bears their second mega-recruit in the last week.

Li is a member of the United States Junior National Team for the 2012-2013 season after finishing 6th in the 200 IM at the Olympic Trials in June.

The high school senior, who is on the younger end of this class, comes in with IM bests of 1:58.34/4:06.94. That makes her the #2-ranked 200 IM’er in the class and easily the best 400 IM’er (this year’s 400 IM class is pretty weak nationwide after a few great ones in a row).

That time in the 400 would have left her 11th at NCAA’s last season. The opportunity to train with senior Olympian Caitlin Leverenz (who will likely be a Cal postgrad after this season) will be invaluable to Li’s development, though the two swim very different races. Whereas Leverenz has an explosive breaststroke, Li has taken a much more balanced approach to her race.

It will be interesting to see if like she did early Leverenz’s career, Cal head coach Teri McKeever encourages Li to focus on attacking her primary stroke. Li comes in with bests of 52.7/1:56.8 in the 100 and 200 flys, both of which would have put her very close to B-Finals last year at NCAA’s as well.

Li has some international experience already, having traveled to the FINA World Cup Series in both 2010 and 2011, and is the California North Coast Section record holder in the 100 fly. She joins Kristen Vredeveld in giving a verbal commitment to McKeever and the Golden Bears. Interesting to note is that Li and Vredeveld both visited Cal on the same weekend as the biggest high school recruit ever: Missy Franklin.

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106 Comments on "Olympic Trials Finalist Celina Li Commits to Cal"


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Swimmer
3 years 11 months ago

How many scholarships do they have?? It’s seems like they are endless amounts of top recruits going to cal. My guess Is that this is the last big time recruit they are bringing in besides missy Franklin, who’s going there seems inevitable. Not enough scholarships with all the stars they already have.

anonymous
3 years 11 months ago

I have a feeling there are a bunch of partial scholarships (actually, mathematically this has to be the case given their 24-member roster), especially for those from california. Since the tuition is so much cheaper for in-state residents, those from california can be on partial scholarships and not have that financially affect their decision..that much. Three people on 70% scholarship gets you an extra full scholarship…makes those 14 go a long way.

Interesting to note that Caitlin is the only senior this year, which means Teri has been saving those scholarships.

Swimmer
3 years 11 months ago

True, but you know Teri is keeping 1 full scholarship around for Missy.
On a different note I know that California state schools admission has sky rocketed in the recession, there have been big student protests about it. I am sure this has made them give out some higher percentage scholarships then they have wanted to.

PositiveEnergy
3 years 11 months ago

According to Cal’s website, their non-resident tuition is $36,078 n.i. books, health ins., room/board & personal transportation which would bring the total costs up to between $51,478 and $54,578 depending on whether living off or on campus.

duckduckgoose
3 years 11 months ago

Leverenz is a senior, and while it’s likely that she will stay in Berkeley to train for 2016, she and Li will never swim together for the Bears.

Cal turns down 40k applicants every year, so there’s great demand for slots at Cal. Cal rugby doesn’t offer scholarships, but they do have some pull with admissions and consequently attract recruits from around the world who appreciate Cal’s athletic and academic excellence.

Reid
3 years 11 months ago

Possibly some of the instaters qualified for academic scholarships or need-based financial aid?

anonymous
3 years 11 months ago

Cal doesn’t have academic scholarships, except for the Regents and Chancellor’s Scholar award, which is only given to the most academically elite applicants (~200) as a way to attract those who are likely considering Ivies, Stanford, MIT, Hopkins, etc. Monetarily it’s only $1000 a year so it doesn’t really help much financially, though it does provide benefits such as early registration, priority housing, academic support, scholars’ only events, etc. Need-based financial aid is extremely difficult to get–you essentially need to qualify for the Pell grant.

I think duckduckgoose is right in terms of the pull the athletic department is able to have in terms of admissions. Two guys from my high school, both excellent swimmers though probably not elite-level, ended up swimming for Cal a few years ago. Both were smart, but their academics alone probably would not have gotten them into Cal. I don’t know if either of them received partial/full scholarships, but I know their parents would definitely have paid for the opportunity to have their sons attend an academic institution like Cal.

WIth the exception of the most elite crop of swimmers, most look at academics first…so if any opportunity to attend and swim for Cal is available–even with little/no scholarship–I would think most would jump at the opportunity. Plus you get to train with Olympians!!!

PositiveEnergy
3 years 11 months ago

We are fortunate in swimming to have many great academic institutions that also have great swim programs- USNews top 25 include (in alpha) Columbia, Notre Dame, Princeton, Stanford, UC-Berkeley (Cal), UCLA, USC (Southern Cal) and UVA who also happen to be in the top 25 womens &/or men’s Div 1 S&D 2012 programs. These schools are top 25 academic & top 4 in women’s div 1 S&D and top 7 in men’s div 1 S&D – Stan, UC-Berkeley (Cal) & USC. Just saying PAC 12 S&D…..

PositiveEnergy
3 years 11 months ago

According to their website, the 2012-12 Cal Women’s roster has 24 on it including divers. 12 of the 24 are non-residents which means $22,878 more in tuition for them. When non California residents, at least the playing field for the tuition costs for goign after recruits is more comparable for the other 2 private schools in California competing for the same athletes.

Sam I Am
3 years 11 months ago

Roth left the team after this past season, leaving another opening.

ArtVanDeLegh10
3 years 11 months ago

I know this isn’t about Celina Li, but I laughed when I read that Missy Franklin is apparently the “biggest high school recruit ever.” I get it because she has WRs, Gold Medals, and her success in LCM. She probably is, but I can’t imagine her ever winning 3 individual events at NCAAs. She is a much better LCM swimmer, and probably isn’t going to beat Tran or Bootsma in the 100 Back in SCY. I’m sure she will win both the 200 Back and 200 Free, but I really wonder if she has the speed/UWs to win the 100 Back. If it wasn’t for Natalie Coughlin completely shutting down her last 30 of her 200 Back her senior year, she would have gone 12/12 at NCAAs in her individual events. I wonder is Missy will get over 10.

Josh
3 years 11 months ago

I’m pretty sure the honor of “Biggest High School Recruit Ever” would have to go to Tracy Caulkins. Even though you could swim more than three individual events at NCs back then, she won 12 individual titles in three years, and held 6 individual NCAA records when she retired following the 1984 Olympics. She didn’t even swim her senior year.

gosharks
3 years 11 months ago

Is the award for “biggest high school recruit ever” given at the completion of their college career or on July 1 before their senior year of high school?

Josh
3 years 11 months ago

At age 15, Tracy Caulkins won 5 gold (both IMs, 200 fly, relays) and a silver at the 1978 World Championships and was supposed to be the big star of Moscow 1980. At 16, she broke American yards records in the 100 breast, 100 and 500 free, and the 200 and 400 im. By the time she was a senior in high school, she added the 200 backstroke to her list of American records and rebroke all of her prior records, so yeah. Imagine a recruit who by the age of 18 holds American records in every single stroke, and has won a World or National title in nearly every single event. That was Tracy Caulkins.

gosharks
3 years 11 months ago

Appreciate the knowledge (and sass), but my question is still relevant to the original posts on Caulkins and Coughlin, which only made mention of collegiate accomplishments. And yes, I also know that Coughlin had qualified in every event for Nationals by age 16 or so.

bobo gigi
3 years 11 months ago

No competition even if Cal hasn’t Missy. Rachel Bootsma, Elizabeth Pelton, Cindy Tran, Lauren Driscoll, Kelly Naze, Kristen Vredeveld and now Celina Li! Is there a rule like in NBA with the salary cap? Can an university buy all swimmers they want? You talk about scholarships but I don’t know the rules. Is there a limit? Because if almost all biggest talents go in the same place it means the end of the competition.

duckduckgoose
3 years 11 months ago

Women are limited to a maximum of 14 scholarships, men have 9.9. Cal is fully funded, so they have one scholarship left for Missy or Lia Neal, if they want to swim for Cal. Would also not be surprised if Teri added an instate Californian (Linnea Mack) like they did last year with locals Rachel Acker and Alicia Grima.

bobo gigi
3 years 11 months ago

Thank you for the answer. So if I understand well a school can take the 5 or 6 best swimmers of a season.

duckduckgoose
3 years 11 months ago

You’re welcome. Schools can divide up their scholarship money within the men’s and women’s teams anyway they want, so there’s no limit to how many swimmers they bring in every year, but there are limits to the total amount of scholarship money they can spend. Teams generally want a balance between classes and events, so on average a women’s team spends 3.5 (14/4) scholarships per year and men will spend 2.5 (9.9/4) per year. Superstars like Missy get full scholarships, and most everyone else divides up partial scholarships.

Someone who doesn’t receive any scholarship money is called a “walk on”, Public schools in large states with a large number of swimmers (Cal, Texas, Florida) have an advantage because they charge lower fees for students who are state residents. Private schools (Stanford, USC) are more expensive, so they have fewer walk ons than public schools.

Sam I Am
3 years 11 months ago

Does not shock me at all that Cal is getting top notch recruits right away. They had very few slots comming into this recruiting season and it seemed like every top recruit in the nation had Cal on their short list. Sort of a first come first serve situation. Would be interesting to see what happens if Neal and Franklin both say they want to go to Cal…..

JoJo
3 years 11 months ago

Samething happens that happened with UGA men last year. Teri goes to current roster and everybody gives back a little and chips in to get them both (same way it always happens). Jack did it last year for UGA men.

RetiredOldLady
3 years 11 months ago

Never once did Teri do that in all the time I spent at CAL. Nor have I heard of it since. That’s a silly assumption.

nostradamus
3 years 11 months ago

not really, i know for a fact that auburn did it while they were making their runs in the early 200’s…

jim
3 years 11 months ago

So many great schools to consider for not only a great career in the pool but for a great degree. This year is stacked with amazing talent, possibly the deepest and best in a decade. Cal is the powerhouse and will be for years. But for those truly great high school All Amercians that aren’t at the level of Missy Franklin or Lia Neal there are so many great choices for schools where they will get attention and develop. We have seen so many great swimmers (again that aren’t at the Missy level) go to Cal and frankly get lost. Someone mentioned Linnea Mack. She is a great swimmer but at Cal she won’t make nearly the difference as she is used to making and probably will walk away more frustrated than satisfied. That goes for so many great swimmers who really could make a huge differerence elsewhere. It’s like that great QB who is a top 50 national recruit that goes to USC and rides the pine for 4 years never to be heard from again. He becomes the scout QB at the practice facility after having an amazing career in High school. You can wear the national championship ring all you want but you look at it for the rest of your life on your finger knowing you had very little to nothing to do with helping your team achieve greatness.

SwimParent
3 years 11 months ago

You are correct. And just because you may pick a school that has a lot of talent does not mean a national championship. There are many factors including injury, poor grades, other schools, bad swims, illness, unhappiness, etc. You may be expected to win, but don’t assume.

However, if you go to a school that offers a great education (one of the top educational universities) and you apply yourself to your school work, then you can earn a degree that will make you happy the rest of your life. Swimming lasts 4 years, maybe more, possibly less. Education lasts forever. And a side benefit is you can swim, not necessarily sit the bench at a “top swimming school.”

Use your hard work and talent to earn a scholarship to help you get a degree that no one can take away. When you get out of college, you will be glad you did, your family will be glad you did. And have fun swimming!

jim
3 years 11 months ago

So many swimmers (and athletes of all sports) lose site of what’s really important, their education. You’re absolutely right Swimparent. There are certain schools that we simply wouldn’t let our daughter consider because of the academic side of the equation. Being able to swim at the collegiate level (D1 top 20) and receive an amazing degree will be the best 4 years of her life. I remember it like it was yesterday. Being able to enter the work world with that degree and as an ex-athlete even more impressive to employers.

beachmouse
3 years 11 months ago

Do the UC schools have a way for their recruited student-athletes to qualify for in-state tuition after a year like it’s my understanding some other states’ public universities do?

WHOKNOWS
3 years 11 months ago

I believe they must have a year residency in the state, then they can get in state tuition. Many freshmen stay at college during the summer to get that year residency,

CalBearFan
3 years 11 months ago

You are not correct WhoKnows. This is from the Board of Regents handbook directly:

“To be classified a resident for tuition and fee purposes, a student who is not dependent on a California-resident parent must demonstrate financial independence (total self-sufficiency) for two full years immediately preceding the residence determination date of the term for which the student is requesting a resident classification, in addition to 366 days of physical presence and intent.”

Would take a minimum of 3 years. As far as I know, all of the athletes on Cal’s team that are out of state remain out of state for their career.

H2OUKNOW
3 years 11 months ago

So MUCH misinformation here….for the umpteenth time in a row, the University of California – Berkeley has been rated the #1 public university IN THE UNITED STATES.

66,000 freshmen applied for admittance last year, and 11,000 transfer applicants applied. Of those 77,000 who applied, ROUGHLY 10% WERE OFFERED ADMISSION. That rate rivals the admission rate of the Ivy League schools. The AVERAGE GPA for an incoming Cal freshman is 4.5 and the “average” SAT score is 2200. How do I know this? i know several students who are current freshman at Cal and some of them are athletes in several different sports. The athletes admitted don’t necessarily fit those parameters, but they got in nevertheless – their sport was certainly their ticket in. Of course, they have to keep up their grades, but without the sport, they would NEVER have gotten in.

Plenty of Valedictorians and rocket scientists who apply to Cal don’t get in, so even if you aren’t the “best of the best” in your sport, you are afforded an opportunity to get an education which is second to none in the public university realm. I also know that approximately 12-16 swim recruits are invited each year to take a trip, and the “right fit” isn’t only determined by the recruits themselves. It is an honor to be offered a trip to Cal, and not everyone who wants to go there, even to “walk on” is allowed to.

There is other scholarship money available to in-state students other than Pell Grants – again more misinformation. The UC system has begun the “Middle Class Action Program” to assist students not quite poor enough to receive large government grants, but poor enough that without assistance, attending would be difficult. Of course, this only applies to in-state students, but it is available. And finally, maybe these athletes want to be a part of a winning team even if they don’t get to be the “superstar?” After all, the reason why one is supposed to be going to college in the first place is to get an education that one can actually USE when they graduate. A degree from a stellar institution is really what it’s all about, isn’t it? And Berkeley certainly offers ample opportunity to get a first-class education. Couple that with winning teams, and you have a combo that is pretty hard to beat.

anonymous
3 years 11 months ago

(the average SAT is ~2000 not 2200…but that’s still real good considering its large class)

I don’t think anyone has been saying Cal isn’t a great school. It certainly is…and is why having the opportunity to swim/study there is a privilege…the best of both worlds. But given the plethora of talent on the team, it is also understandable for potential recruits to go to other schools where they would play a bigger role on the team…especially if those schools also excel academically.

Regardless, we should applaud these swimmers for their dedication to both swimming and academics, and wish them luck as they proceed through the college selection process.

H2OUKNOW
3 years 11 months ago

oops, typo on my part Anon – yes it is 2000. The other numbers are correct and Berkeley is one of a kind – no doubt about that!

beachmouse
3 years 11 months ago

Or if those other schools have more scholarship money available. If the choice was between a full ride at Michigan,which is on the same academic tier, and books only from Cal, then Ann Arbor gets even more attractive despite the snow.

Anon
3 years 11 months ago

Whooooooaaaaa. Don’t think I read anything about Cal not being a top college. Let’s not INVENT “MIS-” information.

Swimnut
3 years 10 months ago

“That rate rivals the admission rate of the Ivy League schools”

Actually, In 2012, the admission rate was 21.13 percent compared to Harvard’s 5.9 percent and Yale’s 6.82.
I attach a comprehensive list for a comparison:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub?key=0ArlRBr9Qvz0mdEdLNzNsRnBKT3Z1dDZ5QTFCQVV1NkE&output=html

jim
3 years 11 months ago

I don’t think anyone was questioning the caliber of school that Cal is. It’s a world class university. It’s also a great swimming school right now. I think everyone was just questioning how they split their scholorships up. Also, there are so many other options for great swimmers other than Cal. UCLA is one of those great choices. New complex, a program on the rise as they are starting to land some great recruits. UCLA is the #1 applied to school in the nation with 57,000 applicants a year. 12,000 freshman are admitted. 13,700 freshman are admitted to Cal a year. UCLA is a tougher school to get in to both as a regular student and as an athlete. Athletically UCLA has 3x the amount of NCAA championships then does Cal. Much higher standards athletically as well. Swimming right now is a different story. For now. Also, the UCLA student won’t show up in sandles for their first interview in the buisness world. Just having a bit of fun with the angry Cal guy.

NONA
3 years 11 months ago

UCLA? Really? That’s your counter to what CAL has going on right now?

jim
3 years 11 months ago

If you read what i wrote again you’ll understand what i was saying. UCLA? As a counter academically? Yes! As a counter for overall athletics like I stated? No one could dispute that. I think Cal is a great school with incredible swimming and overall their sports are above average but they are no UCLA when referring to balance of overall athletics and academics. As far a swimming goes UCLA could be an up and comer. They are in one of the most desirable areas in the country, they have an amazing new assistant and one of the best facilities in the country. They haven’t finished well in the rankings but that may change. Last year they had a top 8 recruiting class and this year they already have 2 very strong verbal commitments for next year. I hear they have verbals from a top 2 backstroker and top 3 breastroker coming in next year. I think they could be 2 recruits away from jumping into the 15 within 2 years. Hey my only dog in the hunt was that I was a swimmer and I did go to UCLA. Facts are right there academically and athletically. Go Bruins!

Benny
3 years 11 months ago

2010-11 Directors Cup: Cal 3rd…Ucla 11th; since 1990 Cal leads the football series 13-9…Cal won both games in men’s basketball last year. Cal has a lot more sports like men’s swimming, men’s gymnastics, rugby and men’s crew. If you really think Cal is no Ucla in sports, you’re living in the 70’s!

H2OUKNOW
3 years 11 months ago

Sure, Jim. That UCLA mens’ swim team is a tough one to beat…oh wait…..what mens’ team?

You have got to be kidding me. As Nona said, really?

No Nothing
3 years 11 months ago

USC, Stanford, AZ and AZ state all finished ahead of UCLA in Pac12 swimming. Why wait and hope?

PositiveEnergy
3 years 11 months ago

Bottom line the recruiting process is about finding the right fit- athletically, academically, financially, opportunities to contribute/excell, geographically. Ultimately the recruits need to consider what their primary goals are and where they can best fulfill those goals. Lots goes on behind the scenes. I have never heard a recruit say he/she chose a school because he/she got more $ from that school but happens all the time that this is what tips the scale. Coaches make scholarship offers with time limits on them to accept or…..

ColdHardFacts
3 years 11 months ago

70 Nobel Prizes, 9 Wolf Prizes, 7 Fields Medals, 15 Turing Awards, 45 MacArthur Fellowships, 20 Academy Awards and 11 Pulitzers. 16 chemical elements discovered-more than any other university in the world. 84 national titles in 15 sports including football, basketball, baseball, softball, crew, tennis, swimming, water polo, track and rugby. 235 individual national champions and 159 Olympic medals. There’s only one Cal and it’s in Berkeley.

H2OUKNOW
3 years 11 months ago

Amen.

gored
3 years 11 months ago

Jim,

Card grad here so love your jab at our rivals, and I know you have special ax to grind since UCLA dropped their men’s team once they figured out they couldn’t compete against your buddies over at USC (university of spoiled children). Surprised to hear about how rigorous UCLA standards are for athletes, since one of my staff, a UCLA grad, has a son who was looking hard at San Diego State and the local JC until UCLA football offered him a preferred walk-on. Heck, even I know the Stanford’s admissions really bends the rules for athletes but your comments about how UCLA is tougher than Cal just doesn’t have any basis in facts, or common sense. Both schools are highly rated, have very smart students and a select group of student admits each year that are brought in without having the academic credentials of the average student. So what.
I have worked overseas and it’s my experience that Cal, Berkeley is highly regarded academically (almost on par with Stanford), and many people hear that SC and UCLA are good sport schools, so I guess you have Cal beat there. Congrats.

cal or stanford?
3 years 11 months ago

I have no idea what Cal and Standford’s admission departments standards are for athletes. And they are clearly BOTH top notch schools. But let’s look at the academic majors of the juniors and seniors male swimmers of both teams per their rosters. My quick count is Stanford (2011-2012 roster) 9-Engineering, 2-Earth Systems, 2-Science Technology and Society (dosn’t sound easy to me) 1-Politics and 1-Economics and History. Cal on the other hand, Undeclared-8, American Studies-2, Legal Studies-1, Religious Studies-1, Molecular Biology-1 (particularly impressive) and Public Health-1. Maybe the Cal coaches haven’t updated the academic information of their athletes. But if I were the parent of a smart kid who swam, Olympic aspirations or not, and I had the choice between those schools by looking at their rosters……hmmmmm. The academic reputation of a school is important, but in this economy, your coursework while in college, may be more important. And the young men and women at Stanford seem to be able to do it all. How many of us know recent grads from GREAT schools with no job?

I didn’t do the same comparison for women’s swimming but the Cal roster lists one senior and four juniors so I didn’t think that was fair…..Missy and Lia if you are reading this…think about it!

jim
3 years 11 months ago

UCLA grad here. Just poking fun at Cal. I have family members who are Cal grads and UCLA grads. We enjoy ribbing each other on a fairly consistent basis. Tons of passion coming from both sides. When comparing schools I look at the data not at what someone thinks or witnesses while oversees. Sorry Card one guys opinion doesn’t count with me. The standards of getting into both Cal and UCLA are both very high. For athletes that are worthy of playing a sport at either they are quite low. Stanford’s on the other hand are very high even for exceptional athletes. The variance between athlete and regular student as far as admission crudentials goes is low at Stanford. It is much higher at UCLA and Cal. I know this as we have a football player, baseball player and swimmer in our family who all applied to all 3 schools. UCLA was a bit more challenging to get in to than Cal (not Stanford). Crudentials are similiar but it’s basic econ 101. 90,000 applications a year at UCLA and 11,000 get admitted. 65,000 at Cal and 13,000 get admitted. 21% acceptance rate at Cal and just below 17% at UCLA. That’s the Data. As far as balance goes both have it between athletics and academics. UCLA gets the edge on athletics overall but not not with swimming. Simple. That’s it. Bruin out!

Anonymous
3 years 11 months ago

Hello College Swim Fans- having read all the emails from Jim, if he actually attended and graduated from UC-whatever, he clearly needs to work on his spelling and grammar.

Contrary to his earlier comment, UCLA has always attracted excellent recruits.
Its the results that tell a different story as compared to similar schools.

It appears this person has some obvious envy regarding CAL. I wonder why? What years did you swim again? Do you wish you went to CAL? LOL!!!’

Get the facts Jack, er huh, Jim!

Let’s hear it for college swimming!!

jim
3 years 11 months ago

If you can stomach all of my grammatical errors i would suggest that you read through my information. The information is fact based data as opposed to your response which was a waste of space. I have absolutely no envy at all regarding Cal. Proud to say I didn’t go there but i do respect Cal as it is an outstanding school. It’s a rival so there isn’t any love. If you ever played a sport at a high level you would understand that. What result’s are you referring to? The 106 national championships across all sports that UCLA has? Just wondering?

bobo gigi
3 years 11 months ago

When will we have “The Decision” of Missy? The suspense is terrible.

jim
3 years 11 months ago

Texas or Georgia. To know Coach Capatani and Fink is to love them. Texas will be a force within the next 3 years and I think they have a real shot at Missy. She can help them build something special down there. We’ll see what this ultimate game changer does.

Sam I Am
3 years 11 months ago

Texas? Capatani might be the best person in the world but it seems very unlikely that an olympic champion would go to be coached by a lady who has never been a head coach of any program at any level until this year. I can not see someone giving up millions upon millions of dollars to be coached by someone who COULD build something special.

jim
3 years 11 months ago

Have you ever spoke to or know her? Do you know Coach Fink? If not, you might consider retracking your statement. Both are excellent coaches who have each been a part of and coached national and world class swimmers. At Texas Reese would have never cleared her if he thought she didn’t have the ability to build a winner. She has the full backing of the richest athletic department in the country. Not a Texas guy but would just say keep your eyes on them. While she may not ultimately get Franklin she will land studs!

Coach
3 years 11 months ago

I would be shocked if she picked Texas. I think Georgia lost their best coach when Carol left, but who would Missy train with at Texas? With Georgia and USC being combined, she has a guys team to race (which is who I imagine she races in her current team environment). While Cal is segregated by gender, they have a massive backstroke group.

I think the potential of the UT women’s team is unreal, but of all the options Missy has, I’m not sure if Texas is her best one. Things may be different four years from now.

Jg
3 years 11 months ago

Unfortunately the economics of California are not looking good for graduates.

It might also be a good idea to enrol /accept a schol in a state that has a future that is not debt & where businesses are moving to.

WM
3 years 11 months ago

Good point…I hear North Dakota is having huge job growth right now…Fargo is the new boom town! The Bay Area has hardly any job opportunities. I think UND-Grand Forks should be on Lia Neal’s and Missy Franklin’s short lists!

BTW…Cal Aquatics has a $10million endowment, entirely separate from the UC Regents general fund, they’ll be fine despite what’s going on in Sacramento. And there are few places in the world that can compare with San Fran and Silicon Valley in terms of job opportunities…just in case a high school swimmer even has that on their radar.

Benny
3 years 11 months ago

LOL, Cal grads are finding jobs in a tough economy; that’s why a Cal degree is so valuable. Also, the Bay Area has not been hit as hard as the rest of the country which is indicated why home prices have stayed relatively the same! Technology is thriving-the Bay Area is the center of the tech world!!

Jg
3 years 11 months ago

All maybe so but California is losing population & those that stay will be called on to repay the debts.

Yes I know about the endowment . However life goes on long after college & swimming.

Of all the states California is failing to ‘recover’.

Opinionated
3 years 11 months ago

Cal also has the advantage of having a coach who can improve athletes in both short course and long course. Short course is nice, but long course is vital if you are a top athlete who wants to be marketable enough to extend your career beyond college. There is no commercial demand for a really fast yards swimmer. With the median age of elite talent climbing, having a coach who looks beyond the small pool is necessary for the long-term success of the athlete.

jim
3 years 11 months ago

There are about 5 swimmers out of the thousands that can actuallly make a living at this sport. So, yes Long course is vital to their economic future. Add to that another 20 that would like to make a spot on the Olympic team in 4 years. But for the other 99.9% of swimmers who are good enough to swim at a major college or even a D3 schools it’s about yards. Colleges care if you can rip in a short course pool. The last college dual meet, conference championship or NCAA championship that was long course was ……..NEVER! We live in a short course world in America because for 99.9% of Amercian swimmers it’s about college and competing at that level.

Opinionated
3 years 11 months ago

“But for the other 99.9% of swimmers who are good enough to swim at a major college or even a D3 schools it’s about yards.”

First, we are talking about the top athletes coming out of High School. If those kids are going to buy into the idea that yards-ony success is a good path we are in a world of trouble internationally. If the most 18-year-olds who are contenders for scholarships at schools like Cal don’t have long course goals, we’re hosed.

Second, short course has less cache than long course. We all know college heros that couldn’t get it done in the big pool because they had great starts and turns but couldn’t actually swim fast or weren’t in good enough shape to handle it. If you were a National Team member most athletes think that is admirable and relevant. If you say you were on an NCAA Championship team it is a yawner unless you excelled individually.

Finally, the idea that you would trust your athlete’s future (and possibly their prime years as a swimmer) to a coach who is one-dimensional or is concerned about their college record/job/statys over developing the athlete for all competitions is ridiculous. Don’t shortchange your children (if you are a parent) or your swimmers (if you are a coach). Find a program that provides them with the most possibilities for success in both short and long course.

ItsAboutWhatTheKidsWant
3 years 11 months ago

Opionated … Very True!

Jim, how come there were 1700 athletes at trials even though 98.5% of them are not going to the olympics. Because the opportunity exists for all of them. More kids have LC goals rather than SC goals. If your logic stands true, we should cut the number of [email protected] My prediction would be swimming interest will decline and so would the great talent we now have in our youth. Now, why would a college swimmer want to go to trials since “we live in a short course world.” NOT! They do because they have goals only achievable in a LC pool. And yes, when they do well in a LC pool, get recruited and attend a college, more talented kids will also attend that college. LC/olympic finalist/olympians are a great recruiting tool for colleges.

jim
3 years 11 months ago

Many swimmers are either great at one or the other (LC or SC) or even both. Fact is to a college shortcourse is more important. Don’t know how you agrue with that. The Majority of college coaches are paid to succeed in a shortcourse environment. In dual meets (shortcourse), conferences (shortcourse) and NCAA’s (shortcourse). There are some that specialize in preparing the Missy Franklin’s for what’s to come in 4 years (Olympics again). In America wrong or right we live in a shortcourse world. Maybe we’ll go back to 1956 at Yale some day but not now.

jim
3 years 11 months ago

Understood. Read my latest post and I think it sums everything up. America (right or wrong) is a shortcourse nation when it comes to age group, high school and college swimming. Maybe it’s because we never bought into the metric system. LOL. Having hopes of making a national team or an Olympic team I think is on every kids mind but it’s not realistic.

jim
3 years 11 months ago

50 national team members and thousands of college swimmers. I’m not saying that long course isn’t important cause it is. But for so many swimmers having an amazing college career void of a longcourse national team experience is just fine with most i’m sure.

jim
3 years 11 months ago

how many 18 year olds are contenders for scholorships at or schools like Cal? 30? From a swimming perspective there is only 1 Cal (for now) and maybe 4 others that have the potential to be on par. “Short course has less Cache”. Really? Why then does America focus 9 out of 12 months a year on shortcourse? That’s 75% of the year in a non Olympic year. College focuses 100% on shortcourse. There are thousands of swimmers in America and maybe 100 represent our country on the international level. Why don’t you ask the entire roster (not just the ones that scored big at NCAA’s) at Cal how they felt about their national championship? Terri likes to show off her NCAA trophies when recruiting for Cal. She’s proud of that accomplishment as she should be. It’s what she is paid for. No one is saying that LC isn’t important but a college coach is paid to win short course formated meets. USA swimming by making 75% of the year shortcourse and NCAA swimming by making 100% of the year SC has made it clear what’s more important to them at least 3 out of every 4 years.

Opinionated
3 years 11 months ago

The fact that short course is more prevalent just means that there is an established infrastructure that would be too costly to replace for colleges. Nothing more, nothing less. Yards is a necessary venue because if colleges were asked to shell out the dollars to build 50 meter pools they would drop the programs, which would be a travesty. It doesn’t make it more significant, just moe prevalent.

When I say “cache” I mean that long courseand short course success is viewed by athletes as more impressive. The fact that college coaches are proud of their college accomplishments is obvious. They should be proud. But a coach who has great short course success and no long course success is not as admired as one who has both. The same goes for athletes. If you can’t perform in the big pool as a coach or an athlete it decreases the perception of your abilities. You are not as skilled as someone who can do both. As a comparison, a designated hitter is not as impressive as a starter because they can only do one thing well and the starter can do it all. If the DH was as well-rounded a player, he would be starting.

jim
3 years 11 months ago

Can’t think of a school that doesn’t have a 50 meter pool.

Opinionated
3 years 11 months ago

“Can’t think of a school that doesn’t have a 50 meter pool.”

Clearly you are from California or another warm-weather climate. Go anywhere in the northern part of the country and you are unlikely to find a 50 meter pool at a college. If it a state that has a real winter (hence the need to put a multi-million dollar building around it) and they are infrequent or non-existant. If you want a specific example, the University of Delaware doesn’t have one. Pick any of your average DII or DIII schools and they probably don’t have one. There may be a bunch where you are, but most of the NCAA doesn’t have one. Just because you have an emberassment of riches doesn’t mean the rest of the country does.

Josh
3 years 11 months ago

Florida and Texas are just as good at coaching kids to long course success, and Austin and Gainesville are far less expensive places to live than Berkeley. To add to that, there is no state income tax in Florida or Texas but there is a 9+ percent income tax in California. You can argue that you get paid more out west, but more often than not, any gains are absorbed by the sheer difference in the cost of living. A home that would cost you 150k in Austin or Gainesville would cost you upwards of 700k in the Bay Area. Also, Cal degrees are a dime a dozen if you live in the Bay. Austin is booming in tech and startups right now, and Gainesville has been named one of the best places to live in the country for years.

Benny, what rock are you living under that you think housing prices have stayed the same? No one can afford to buy here, so everyone is renting, and the rental market is a madhouse. In some areas of San Francisco, rents have increased 100 percent over what they were this time last year. Similar increases are being found across the Bay. This is a robust housing market.
http://sf.curbed.com/archives/2012/05/14/the_bad_news_as_suspected_rental_rates_have_increased_dramatically_over_the_past_year.php

No Nothing
3 years 11 months ago

UCLA??? Isn’t that like comparing the NY Jets to a high school team?

jim
3 years 11 months ago

Tough to even follow up to such a stupid comment…so i won’t.

Benny
3 years 11 months ago

Jim get your facts straight! Cal is more difficult to get into; they have a much higher yield of acceptances. Ucla has more students than Cal; Ucla have to admit a lot more students for more spaces available.Also, Cal also has a favorable student teacher ratio which means larger classes at Ucla! Applications are simply a symptom of being located in one of the population centers in North America

jim
3 years 11 months ago

Yes LA is a huge population center. However, out of the top 10 most applied to schools 3 of them are in much lower populated areas. 2 are in San Diego a market of 3 million (SDSU and UCSD) and 1 in Louisiana (Tulane). So Benny your theory holds no water. It may just be that UCLA is the most desirable school to attend. Westwood is a clean (as opposed to Berkley) beautiful area close to the beach and UCLA is a top public institution. Maybe that’s a part of the equation. Better weather, hardly any bums, beach close by and a great school with balance athletically and academically. Don’t know what else there is to say.

MomoJamo
3 years 11 months ago

When was the last time you were in Westwood, Jim? There were sure plenty of bums when I was there last weekend. If you can even get there (“carmageddon” anyone?). The traffic around Westwood is the worst in the world. I am very happy to say I won’t be needing to go anywhere near there again any time soon.

You are right about something. I think it’s notable that most of the “most applied to” schools are in California. We must be doing something right.

jim
3 years 11 months ago

I was there on Tuesday. In Westwood 2-3x a week as I have a big client there. Agree that the traffic is horrific. Bums? nothing like up north.

NONA
3 years 11 months ago

All the schools discussed here are great places to get an education. The reality is, an engaged, motivated student will get a better education at ANY school they go to than a disinterested student will get at the best school in the country. It is about best fit, and that can be different for everyone.

mary
3 years 11 months ago

Absolutely agree with you. Plus, I believe that any disinterested student athlete would quickly change his mind if he gets the opportunity to study in a great school like Harvard or Standford. So you now have a motivated student and a happy athlete.

cynthia curran
3 years 11 months ago

Well, college recruitment is different. California has almost the same demographics as Texas but isn’t creating the jobs and the cost of housing and lack of jobs is driving people to Texas and other nearby states, JG is correct, Texas has an advantage now on jobs and so forth.

MomoJamo
3 years 11 months ago

Unless you neither like the politics or climate in Texas. For some people, cheap housing isn’t the most important thing, and there are plenty of jobs left in California – particularly if you are qualified and bother to “show up” to work. All the money and cheap housing in the world would never convince me to live in Texas – no thanks.

Jg
3 years 11 months ago

Many many places in the USA are beautiful .

You are right about thinking what politics suit you because Texas is solid R & Cali solid D & these are not changing in the next 5 years. There are opposing enclaves in each but you would be friendless outside these zones.

It also depends if you want to have a family in the future. The numbers of children in the Bay area has been shrinking severely & taking with them the teaching jobs & medical. The SF Mayor is wondering why – DUH.

Also it might be hard to find someone of the opposing chromosones.

MomoJamo
3 years 11 months ago

California is a BIG state, JG. There are other places to live in the “Golden State” other than the SF Bay Area. In case you didn’t know, Oakland/Berkeley is on the OTHER side of the SF Bay, and there are an awful lot of places in between both North and South. Several distinct climates – unlike Texas where you get hot/hot or hot/cold/snow and that’s pretty much it. People are leaving, but they are still coming and not just from South of the Border (which, btw is a problem in Texas as well). As long as there are jobs and plenty of beach/sunshine they will keep coming.

I have lived in 4 different countries, and seven different states in the US and still keep coming back to Cali, and will retire here (I’m OLD). And if folks want to keep leaving? No problem – it’s been too crowded here since the late 70s.

Jg
3 years 11 months ago

Yes I understand all that. The OWS crowd have made the north side quite infamous .

I lived in LaJolla myself . However a young person starting out in a uncertain political & economic climate could think about state tax liabilities already piled up just waiting for a new ..sucker.

Coach GB
3 years 11 months ago

The 1500 was swum Long Course at the 1956 NCAA’s at Yale University. Not quite never as stated by Braden. A World Record was set. The swimmer hadn’t trained long course in a year and a half and only 2 months total career up till then.

NONA
3 years 11 months ago

By George Block, right? Same initials as you Coach GB!

Coach GB
3 years 11 months ago

George isn’t that old as he graduated Notre Dame ’73 and the school didn’t have the same rep now a D III. Only a great coach.

Swim3057
3 years 11 months ago

Or it could be George Breen….who would have been swimming around that time and was one of the worlds best at 1500m

Reid
3 years 11 months ago

That’s right — George Breen at SUNY Cortland in 18:05.9.

Coach GB
3 years 11 months ago

And “Doc Counsilman” was there 5 years and recieved his nickname from his first Physyology of Exercise class in fall ’52.

WHOKNOWS
3 years 11 months ago

Speaking of Long Course, the 2013 World ChampTrials standards are posted at http://www.usaswimming.org/_Rainbow/Documents/e5208f24-bfb6-4067-b0b5-a1acb28edc28/2013_wc_trials.pdf

Coach
3 years 11 months ago

I kind of feel sorry for Celina Li. Shouldn’t our comments be something along the lines of Congratulations Celina?

John Sampson
3 years 11 months ago

Completly agree. great swimmer who deserves much praise. she will hop in and do exceedingly well in overtaking the IM baton from caitlin leverenz. cant wait to track her progress!

jim
3 years 11 months ago

no doubt. been watching her for years back as far as when she lived and swam in Arizona. Great swimmer and competitor. She’ll do very well in college.

Anonymous
3 years 11 months ago

Why feel sorry for Celina? She will be a stud for CAL. Swimming with Olympians.Congrats to her!

All the “my college is better” comments are fun too. Especially from the UC-Missy Guy.

Braden- Maybe you should consider starting a “Why my (swim) college is superior” blog.

Coach
3 years 11 months ago

I feel bad for her because an article announcing such an important part of her life has been littered with 75+ comments of where Missy Franklin is going to school and why the job potential/ economies in TX and GA are better than in CAL.

Jg
3 years 11 months ago

Obviously the comparative strengths of places & programs are important to readers.

Surely she would be freaked out if she garnered 100 + comments herself. No?

Nancy Drew
3 years 11 months ago

Happy for Celina! I agree that it would be funny to see a blog like that. Can you imagine…UNC vs. NC State, Texas vs. A&M, UGA vs. GT, and Cal vs. Stanford or another school! Great idea Anonymous.

Swim FAN
3 years 11 months ago

More recruiting news, sprinter Eric Risolvato just committed to the University of Arizona

MomoJamo
3 years 11 months ago

And Janardan Burns to Cal…….

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About Braden Keith

Braden Keith

The most common question asked about Braden Keith is "when does he sleep?" That's because Braden has, in two years in the game, become one of the most prolific writers in swimming at a level that has earned him the nickname "the machine" in some circles. He first got his feet …

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