Statements From Brock Turner’s Father, Victim Spark Outrage Over Sentence

Court statements from Brock Turner‘s father and the woman he was convicted of sexually assaulting have stirred up criticism over the length of Turner’s jail sentence and the status of sexual assault within public conversation.

Turner is a former Stanford swimmer who was convicted of three felony sexual assault charges this spring. Last Friday, the 20-year-old Turner was sentenced to 6 months in county jail along with probation. He will also have to register as a sex offender for the rest of his life.

Since the sentencing, court statements from both his father and his victim have been published over a wide range of media outlets, setting off a firestorm of criticism over the sentence and conversation about the issue of sexual assault.

The victim – whose name has been kept anonymous during the proceedings – gave a 12-page victim statement recounting her experience and speaking directly to Turner, who she feels “has failed to exhibit sincere remorse or responsibility for his conduct.”

The 23-year-old victim, known as “Emily Doe” in the proceedings, provided her full statement to BuzzFeed News last Friday.

You can read the full statement here. We’ve republished a short excerpt below:

I was not ready to tell my boyfriend or parents that actually, I may have been raped behind a dumpster, but I don’t know by who or when or how. If I told them, I would see the fear on their faces, and mine would multiply by tenfold, so instead I pretended the whole thing wasn’t real.

I tried to push it out of my mind, but it was so heavy I didn’t talk, I didn’t eat, I didn’t sleep, I didn’t interact with anyone. After work, I would drive to a secluded place to scream. I didn’t talk, I didn’t eat, I didn’t sleep, I didn’t interact with anyone, and I became isolated from the ones I loved most. For one week after the incident, I didn’t get any calls or updates about that night or what happened to me. The only symbol that proved that it hadn’t just been a bad dream, was the sweatshirt from the hospital in my drawer.

Instead of taking time to heal, I was taking time to recall the night in excruciating detail, in order to prepare for the attorney’s questions that would be invasive, aggressive, and designed to steer me off course, to contradict myself, my sister, phrased in ways to manipulate my answers. Instead of his attorney saying, Did you notice any abrasions? He said, You didn’t notice any abrasions, right? This was a game of strategy, as if I could be tricked out of my own worth. The sexual assault had been so clear, but instead, here I was at the trial, answering question like:

How old are you? How much do you weigh? What did you eat that day? Well what did you have for dinner? Who made dinner? Did you drink with dinner? No, not even water? When did you drink? How much did you drink? What container did you drink out of? Who gave you the drink? How much do you usually drink? Who dropped you off at this party? At what time? But where exactly? What were you wearing? Why were you going to this party? What’ d you do when you got there? Are you sure you did that? But what time did you do that? What does this text mean? Who were you texting? When did you urinate? Where did you urinate? With whom did you urinate outside? Was your phone on silent when your sister called? Do you remember silencing it? Really because on page 53 I’d like to point out that you said it was set to ring. Did you drink in college? You said you were a party animal? How many times did you black out? Did you party at frats? Are you serious with your boyfriend? Are you sexually active with him? When did you start dating? Would you ever cheat? Do you have a history of cheating? What do you mean when you said you wanted to reward him? Do you remember what time you woke up? Were you wearing your cardigan? What color was your cardigan? Do you remember any more from that night? No? Okay, we’ll let Brock fill it in.

Then over the weekend, media outlets began reporting on a statement made by Dan Turner, Brock Turner‘s father. A photo of an excerpt of Dan Turner’s statement appeared on the Twitter profile of Michele Dauber, who is a Stanford law professor according to The Guardian‘s report on the statement.

As of now, we’ve been unable to find either full-length statement in court records, but we’ll continue to search and update the story if we discover more information.

UPDATE: The Huffington Post has published Dan Turner’s full letter. You can view it here.

The statement drew criticism from many social media contributors, many of whom condemned the statement’s tone and the phrase “20 minutes of action.” The Guardian reports further on the social media uproar here.

UPDATE: Dan Turner responded to the criticism of his letter in a statement to The Huffington Post. His statement is published in full below:

“My words have been misinterpreted by people,” he said in a statement to The Huffington Post, submitted through his son’s defense attorney. “What I meant with that comment is a 20 minute period of time. I was not referring to sexual activity by the word ‘action.’ It was an unfortunate choice of words and I did not mean to be disrespectful or offensive to anyone.”

The BBC compiled a number of critical tweets, and reports that a petition has been circulated to recall the sentencing judge for what some feel is a “lenient sentence.”

Brock Turner could have faced up to 10 years in prison, but the prosecution pushed for 6 years in a California state prison. Judge Aaron Persky said a harsh prison sentence would have “a severe impact” on Turner, according to the BBC, and he sentenced Turner to just 6 months, taking into account Turner’s lack of a prior criminal record and Turner’s remorse for his actions.

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Markster

To a small extent I agree with the father. Bash me all you want. What is true is that this kids life is ruined, even if he wasn’t sentenced to prison at all. Being a registered sex offender is no joke. He will not be able to own a computer, he will most likely struggle with employment for his entire life and will also struggle with finding places to live. Not to mention the fact that his name is everywhere on the media and people will hate and reject him until he dies. The US prison system does nothing more but create better criminals. He will pay for his crime his entire life regardless and with no chance to revoke… Read more »

Coach Mike 1952

He IS a sex offender. What about this don’t you understand?!?

Jordan

I’m sorry, but you’re concerned that Brock’s life is ruined? You do understand that the VICTIM’S LIFE IS RUINED? The emotional,physical, loss of self worth, can’t be seen by the naked eye trauma this boy inflicted on her, is enough to make some rape victim take their own lives, have the most difficult time adjusting back into the real world. And above all- SHE WILL MOST LIKELY STRUGGLE with ALL THE SAME “problems” as Brock. With employment, finding places to live, etc. She had to leave her job because of the emotional toll this put her through. The emotional effect on her goes far deeper than just “getting justice.” But hey Markster, just think of Brock – uhoh a sex… Read more »

Rhonda Howard

So he won’t own his own computer, it probably doesn’t mean he won’t have one in his home with a family member. Gosh, the kids not being taken to the Himalayas. He can still live in a house, drive a car, have a job, & passport. No doubt, there will be restrictions. But lets not forget… He is not the victim here, she is!!!! Even drunk -you still know that is wrong. I am pissed at Judge Persky. Petitions are all over the net to get him removed from the bench in CA. Giving him 6 months but if good then out in 3? Are you kidding me ? Small dope peddlers get more time than that! Be sure to… Read more »

Rationality

Well…maybe Brock should have thought about the impact on his life and his future before he decided to rape somebody. I agree, he’ll have to pay for the rest of his life, but that is as it should be. At least he had a choice in the matter! HE decided. HE acted. The victim didn’t have that luxury. I agree that this whole situation is terrible for everybody involved, but there is only one person who is at fault: Brock. This is a fact that seems to escape both Brock and his father. Hell…if Dan Turner wants to blame somebody else besides his son, maybe he should take a good look in the mirror and ask himself what he did… Read more »

Henry UK

On the surface of it your statement has validity; this isn’t some irredeemable monster. I am certain that he will never do something like this again even if he never sets foot in a jail. I am certain that he will carry this with him for the rest of his life and that he is suffering but unfortunately you are missing the important point- Brock hasn’t EARNED this level of leniency. I understand that people can make some horrible, horrible mistakes and that it doesn’t mean that is all they are. I also believe that it is fair to show leniency/ mercy when someone stands up and admits their fault. When someone truly show’s empathy for their victim remorse for… Read more »

Cynthia mae Curran

Well, he was a young man and knew better. Yes, it ruins your life but he seems to come from an upper-middle class to somewhat wealthy background typical of swimmers who sometimes think you can get away with things. yes, there is rape in prison and many prisoners don’t like rapist and do mistreat them.

GMK

It would only take 5 minutes to bash someone’s head in with a baseball bat. So that’s about a 1 month of jail, right?

Just Saddened by this Story

Markster: I would simply say that I believe his “steep price” to pay completely ignores what she will live with for the rest of her life. She was right when she said sexual offenders can’t learn they’re wrong by trial and error. Offenders must receive messages that not only impact them but the potential acts of others who recognize what would happen to them if they were to rape a woman. It is just completely outside my ability to understand how his father could say Brock was not violent on that night while Brock’s own statement recognized he’d destroyed this woman’s life. Brock is deeply impacted, as his father describes, because he knows what he did. My heart breaks for… Read more »

Lee

All this talk about the impact on him. Is the victim even REAL to you? Have you READ her statement?
This boy has taken no responsibility, which means he may repeat this offence.
Do you think six months will change that?
Do you think six months will deter other criminals?
This sentencing fails by every measure of what jail time is meant to achieve.
It’s a disgrace.

blair

wow. he can’t have a computer…cry me a river. she can’t have normal, untraumatised existence or intimacy.
you sir, are very wrong.
being a registered sex offender IS NO JOKE. that’s kinda why you shouldn’t rape people. period.

A woman

1) You are most DEFINITELY a guy. 2) I wonder, if it were you or your daughter who were raped, unconscious, and left behind a dumpster, if you would feel the same way about this guy’s punishment. He sexually assaulted her. End of story. He deserves YEARS in prison. And I’m sorry, but “Gee, his life is going to be inconvenient” is NOT punishment enough. smh.

Voice of Reason

Brock screwed up, for sure, but vengeance and being vindictive is not the role of the legal system. The maximum sentence for what he did, I believe is 14 years, and all things considered I think that he did probably come out on the lighter side, but I do not think it is unreasonable. Sexual assault is a terrible thing, but he did not rape her and it is beyond obvious that they were both too incredibly drunk to be making any kind of decisions. I think the true story falls on those of everyone around them. Not one person had the presence of mind to help either of them or check on them before it was too late and… Read more »

Darsha Doran

Markster, you have to be male as no woman would agree with what you are saying. Hope it never happens to any of your female relatives, especially your daughter. Bet you’d be singing a different tune if it happened to someone you loved! It is beyond cowardly to take advantage of anyone under the influence AND THIS WOMAN WAS UNCONSCIOUS. Reprehensible, deviant behavior. Apparently this is the example his father set as the kid was growing up.

Sal Gal

Correction. I am both a woman and victim of rape. And I agree with both Markster & Tru Chainz.

tru chainz

Well cheers to you Sal Gal. Glad another person was willing to say something.

CJ1992

I can understand what Markster and Tru Chainz are saying. The fact that their words continue to be taken out of context is really irritating. Neither of them in their initial comments, or about the first 20 I read of Tru Chainz, made a claim that Brock didn’t deserve a more harsh sentence. They simply said that regardless of the sentence length, he will be punished for this for his entire life through jobs, relationships, and legal restrictions. Think logically, not emotionally. Some of you should be in politics with how you take things out of context. I fully believe Brock deserves a longer sentence, but rest assured, he will pay regardless.

Emily

Ever think about how he completely ruined and affected the life of the victim? Even when she’s able to heal and move on from this disaster, she is scarred for life in many ways from him RAPING her. His name should be everyone and he should have a hard time in society for the rest of his life because he is a PREDATOR and his “20 minutes” forever affected the lives of many people. Meanwhile, his daddy is worried about his anxiety and not being able to feed him his favorite foods.

Swammerlife

Actually if he never messes up in the near future he can have his sex offenser status removed after a minimum of ten years.

tru chainz

I love how they downvote you for providing a relevant fact that doesn’t fit into the narrative of “BURN THIS KID AT THE STAKE AFTER PUBLICLY STONING HIM”

daisy

No one wants him burned at the stake. We want meaningful sentences for rapists. Maybe as a deterrent to others. Isn’t that what jail sentences are partly for?

tru chainz

Fair enough. The original purpose of jail was twofold. To remove the offender from society in order to protect others, and to give him/her time to sit and think about what he/she did, feel some remorse, and make some changes to prevent it from happening again. However, numerous studies have proven over the last several decades that american prisons fail dismally to rehabilitate offenders. Dismally. Similarly, long prison sentences fail to adequately discourage criminals as well. If you don’t believe me, a cursory google search will provide you with examples. There is already huge pushback against mandatory minimum sentences wherever they exist, because it’s all but a proven fact that they do not work. Not as deterrents, and certainly not… Read more »

Jojo

It would vastly improve the life of any woman that he is attracted to and feels is weak enough for him to assault. Based on his responses and attitudes he doesn’t feel that he did anything wrong and would do it again. A prison sentence works as a deterrent if the offender wants to reoffend and is just waiting for another chance.

Think

I think rape is considered a violent crime and therefore comes with jail/prison sentence. But how can jail or prison force one to “make some changes to prevent it from happening again” when the human is expected to do that by choice? The fact is this: people don’t make the right choices at all times, so others must do so for them. Another fact: many people believe the jail sentence wasn’t enough. Another fact: most everyone has an opinion.

Celeste Bianco

Well, if he was in prison for 10 or 20 years, that would be one fewer rapist on the streets to worry about.

tru chainz

“And if a frog had wings, it wouldn’t bump it’s ass when it hops”- Red Forman

Emily

It wouldn’t have any effect on MY life, but it sure as hell would be justice for the victim and her family. We all want him to be given the same, fair treatment as any other criminal who sexually assaults another person and the outrage is due to the fact that he is being given special treatment for being a white ex-swimmer from a prestigious university. Maybe you should do a google search on other rapists from non-white, wealthy backgrounds and see what their sentences were for being rapists.

tru chainz

Every legal situation is different and is subject to interpretation at the discretion of the judge. Other cases do not, and should not, have any bearing on this one.

Celeste Bianco

Not true. When sentencing reflects bias toward different groups of offenders, there is a problem that needs to be addressed.

tru chainz

Actually, it is true. Ask any lawyer, judge, or police officer. Or just anyone with an ounce of reason.

tru chainz

Ok come on, how can you downvote this? It is literally nothing but facts. Literally. There is not one single opinion in the whole comment.

dmswim

I agree that sex offender registries and the like severely limit the ability for sex offenders to reenter and become productive members of society. That part of Mr. Turner’s letter is true. What I think bothers most people (it bothers me at least) is Mr. Turner’s inability to see the harm this caused to the victim. He’s writing about how his son can’t eat steak now while his victim has been severely traumatized and will never be the same. Also, the unwillingness of both the father and son to admit that this was sexual assault and an issue of lack of consent instead of a problem with “binge drinking” and “sexual promiscuity” is alarming. The victim wasn’t being sexually promiscuous.… Read more »

tru chainz

That last sentence makes you no better. It’s sad that you don’t realize that

AvantSwim

Exactly the argument people make against free speech…. speech equivalent to physical violence….”no better than.” Sinister drivel.

tru chainz

You can’t sit up on a high horse and spew hate on people, buddy. That’s not taking the high road.

Scott Morgan

Such wisdom from Mr. Logic: a sentence writer is “no better” than a rapist. Anyway, I’m done feeding the nauseating troll.

tru chainz

Thanks, I’m getting rather sick of you as well.

northernsue

This is nicely put. I really don’t know what justice would look like in this case, given that no punishment can undo what happened. I think you hit on what bothers me–the sense that neither Brock nor his family seem to really accept that what he did was a crime and not just a mistake or “one of those things that happens.” His remorse seems a bit convenient and self-centered. Perhaps I am biased a bit, however, because I saw that awful pro-Brock Facebook page (maintained anonymously, so who knows whether it in any way reflects the feelings of Brock), in which just about every “blame the victim” strategy made an appearance. Ugh.

spectatorn

a good write up here – http://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/07/us/outrage-in-stanford-rape-case-over-dueling-statements-of-victim-and-attackers-father.html

it is harder to say what justice would look like since we are not the case judge. The injustice in this case lies in the inequality of legal process for the victim, that perpetrator not admitting guilt and the outcome of a lenient sentence well below maximum sentence.

northern light

Turner family seems to be in total denial. yet the victim’s eloquent letter in which she clearly states the pain and humiliation she suffered speaks volumes. Perhaps the Turner family cannot hear her, but thousands of men and women have. A very courageous and powerful statement from. She gives a clear voice about the terrible crime of rape.

Steve Nolan

Exactly. It’s their insistence that this whole thing is alcohol’s fault, and only really apologizing for drinking too much, that is just nuts.

And even apart from that, I totally get what motivated his dad to write this letter – he’s trying to help out his kid. I get that. But given how lenient his sentence was, they gotta just take the L on this one. And, ya know, actually show some remorse and not be super despicable.

cbswims

Being on a sex offender list is not a joke – neither is rape. If only all rape cases carried appropriate sentencing… : /. While markster’s point is valid – he will pay for this 20 minutes for the rest of his life – Brock’s life, the life of Jane Doe, both their families and friends are all terribly altered b/c of a incredibly bad decision. That’s life. With luck and time maybe each will learn what they can and find some peace.

kate collins

“20 minutes of action” So he raped this woman and this is the father’s description? The guys a sex offender, SHOULD BE IN PRISON FOR MANY YEARS, and his father is upset because his little boy doesn’t like salty snacks and ribeye anymore. What the hell is wrong with this picture?

oooooo

People need to stop calling him a rapist. He was not convicted of rape it was clearly mentioned as “assault with intent to commit rape of an intoxicated woman, sexually penetrating an intoxicated person with a foreign object, and sexually penetrating an unconscious person with a foreign object.” Even further, California rape is defined as someone using “physical force, intimidation, duress, or threats to persuade the victim to engage in sexual intercourse.” In the case of Turner’s rape of an unconscious woman, witnesses and testimony determined that Turner penetrated his victim with a foreign object, not a sexual organ.

Kaster

Okay, I’ll call him a failed rapist who tried to rape her. That’s accurate, right? Because he intended to commit rape but got caught by (thank you Swedes!) the two passers by?

..ya feel better now. Brock the Failure Rapist.

PVSFree

I think people tend to forget prison I supposed to keep people who are dangers to society away from civilians and attempt to rehabilitate them. He judge obviously feels that Brock either can be rehabilitated easily or isn’t much of a danger to society, and I feel we should trust him considering he is much more knowledgable on this case than we are

Celeste Bianco

His actions prove that he is a danger to society. He raped an unconscious woman. He was convicted. You want him around your vulnerable family members? I don’t. He now has the burden of proving he is no longer dangerous, and he hasn’t done that. He doesn’t even exhibit consciousness of the nature of his crime.

daisy

The case is there for all to see. The judge used an outdated notion that boys will be boys (even though he didn’t say it, that is what is behind the sentence), and that it would hurt Brock to be in jail. He had no intention of punishing him any more than the bare minimum. This predator IS a danger to society. How can anyone be sure he won’t do it again? He could have gotten 14 years. Big difference from 3 months and probabtion.

tru chainz

The entirety of the case is not “there for all to see” and it never is. Even for something like the OJ trial, broadcast live, there were details the public was not given. Also, you have no basis on which to say the judge had no intention of punishing him up to your own personal standards.

Why does everyone here think they are better adjudicators than the actual members of the legal system? Mind-blowing.

AvantSwim

Ah…because we have opinions as well? Mindblowing….

tru chainz

Good for you. The judges opinion is the only one that matters, unfortunately.

samuel huntington

then why do you get so upset about people posting their opinions on this case?

tru chainz

Because their “opinions” are emotional, hate-fueled trash. MY opinion is that those opinions are invalid. I’m stating as such. Also, I’m not upset. I’m pretty sure most of comments have been reasonably phrased and refrained from personal insults, which I cannot say of others.

samuel huntington

completely discounting the opinions of others, ok cool.

your words – “Those opinions are invalid”

tru chainz

The argument you’re tying to use is circular, but I will say that when anyones opinion is full of hate and contains nothing constructive, they should be discounted. Which is still MY opinion. See the circular nature of this? Which is why I’ve been trying to present facts.

samuel huntington

I also presented facts – you think others have invalid opinions.

And I’m done posting on this article.

tru chainz

-when they are filled with hate. That’s the central point you left out.

Markster

I didn’t say I agreed with everything he said. I said to a small extent. And by that, I mean I don’t think a long prison system will accomplish anything beneficial. I understand the victim needs emotional compensation. And in my opinion that should come from knowing that his life is ruined and will never recover. His entire life will be a hard struggle and that is certainly justice.

sixstring

A long prison sentence will keep that psychopath away from other women for the duration. The man stuffed dirt and pine needles into her vagina, for god’s sake and then humped her so violently he bloodied her. This is serial killer behavior. He is a danger. How can you not comprehend that???

jennifer

Markster– ok, so are you saying that you feel that our prison system needs an overhaul? That simply punishing people without providing them with real rehabilitation has proven to be ineffective or beneficial? If so, then we have a bit of common ground. However, it’s the system we have and our prisons are filled with people who are serving what the law (aka. we as a society) considers to be appropriate sentencing for the crime. Are you also concerned about those men? Many of whom are men of color–and NOT because more men of color rape, but because we have a judicial system that often doles out maximum sentences based on this factor alone. The judge in this case chose… Read more »

Angrymom

I accomplishes quite a lot for the victim, can’t you imagine how much better her life might be if he went to jail? Her life is even more messed up than his, you think not having a computer sucks, imagine never enjoying sex again and living in constant fear forever. Maybe if he got 6 years, his victim could feel a little safer and sleep a little better at night.

tru chainz

Yeah, maybes don’t really mean jack in the legal system, and for good reason.

Silly Goose

Part of the purpose behind criminal sentencing is punishment not feel sorry for the perpetrator for committing a crime. Sexual assault is a crime of power and violence. This was not “20 minutes of action” or even a stupid mistake. It was a violent crime and until men like Brock’s dad and Markster figure it out there will always be those who make excuses.

Lee

You don’t know that his life is ruined. he could be laughing about this in a year. She, however, won’t be.

tru chainz

Are you f*cking serious?

Fiveos

Seriously, what is your connection to the rapist? I haven’t seen such ignorance in a long time.

tru chainz

I have none whatsoever. I just don’t like lynch mobs. The dude made a huge, life altering mistake. None of you had anything to do with it, nor will you. Piling on him for it is far more ignorant than what I’m doing

Nicos

He made a mistake? This “mistake” has extreme importance to all parties involved. He raped a woman who may or may not be able to move on from this. She may one day be able to live normally and not think about what happened but every so often it will come creeping back in to her consciousness and it will tear her up just like it did in the days and weeks after the event. Actions like his deserve consequences and the consequence of his action is prison. Rape is not an involuntary mistake. Rape is something that every human being knows is wrong. Yes his life will never be the same again but he didn’t just make a mistake.… Read more »

tru chainz

Okay? And he’s been convicted. What’s your point? I’m against the lynch-mob behavior, not the punishing of sexual assailants. Somehow thats being lost in all this.

Celeste Bianco

The “lynch mob behavior” is the result of outrage at the leniency of the sentence imposed by the judge, the letter from the father that reduces a violent, criminal assault to “20 minutes of action,” and a complete lack of evidence that the criminal is even vaguely aware of the magnitude of his crime. What you are also failing to acknowledge is that the victim is no longer the woman she was before the assault. That person, and the person she would have been, is gone. Period. She will never be that person because of what was done to her. Just because you know someone who “moved on” after a rape doesn’t change the fact that she is no longer… Read more »

tru chainz

Who she is, then, now and in the future, is still her choice. You acting like its not diminishes her as a person. Maybe you should direct your outrage inward and ask yourself why you think women are so fragile that they couldn’t possibly recover from trauma? Stop acting like a victim and you’ll stop being one. That’s how the world works.

Celeste Bianco

The question is not whether or not a woman can recover from trauma, the question is why the hell she should have to in the first place.

blair

let’s just play Devils advocate and say prison breaks this dudes soul. great. wonderful. but he’s not even getting the minimum penalty and was only charged with 3 of 5 felonies, not to mention probation.
he’s already getting a walk in the park. do you really think his life is ruined when he obviously can get away with a brutal crime, let alone multiple.
some friend of his father’s or alumni of the school or swim team will bail him out. every. time.
apparently the judge is an ex Stanford athlete…the proof is in the pudding!

Suzy

Prison isn’t meant to “accomplish anything beneficial.” It’s a punishment for heinous crimes. You know, like dragging an unconscious woman’s body behind a dumpster and raping her.

Cheri Z

Having a rapist out on the streets NEVER makes it easier for a survivor to move forward. PERIOD!!! This girl will never be same again. Thankfully, she has close family and friends that will help her heal, but as she stated, she is not the same person. What you take for granted, a survivor does not (walking to your car alone or walking at night or walking anywhere that you don’t know well or trusting new people or falling asleep at night without wondering what a noise might be, etc, etc, etc). And, if you think that changes as the years go on, you are WRONG!! And, this isn’t just her that it impacts, but her family, friends, co-workers, and… Read more »

Voice of Reason

Brock is on the national sex offender register for the rest of his life. That alone is damaging and he will live with these events forever. That said, I know it doesn’t make an enormous difference, but it should be noted that he did not rape this woman.

Again, he did not rape her. The charges brought against him are sexual assault and intent to rape. Given the fact that they were both so incredibly drunk, I am more likely to see how this kind of terrible situation can happen. It does not excuse his actions, but it does provide context that seems to be missing.

tru chainz

Capital letters and exclamation points don’t lend credence to your argument. I’m certain Brock will be dealing with the fallout from this for decades after the victim has forgotten all about it. In fact, she already has, since she had no memory of the incident anyway.

Dan

You don’t get over something like this. It becomes a part of you. You may learn to deal with it but its always there. Its always part of your world view.

T Lincoln

I read this lengthy thread, at least as far down to determine the repetition and arguing provided little additional facts to the original post. The bottom line is, the victim did live through the trial, which in of itself was traumatic, which anyone could determine from her 12 page note she stated at the sentencing. There is much more to this experience as others had pointed out quite clearly. It was stated a few times that arguments are based on facts and emotional responses are not intelligible and courts and laws are decided and made based on facts and not emotions, which is all correct; or at least are intended to be so. the fact of this matter is the… Read more »

Willow

Just in case you didn’t know, having no memory of the crime means you know the before and after and the confusion of being subjected to a sexual assault exam, including photos of your genitals, which, by the way, would have been shown to all at the trial, and left with the haunting pain in your body and mind of knowing something intimately violating happened but not being sure exactly what. It is a horrible feeling. Personally, I would have rather died than wake up from a drug facilitated sexual assault. Your attitude is pure ignorance.

tru chainz

Yeah, choosing death over embarrassment is super enlightened.

Scott Morgan

What is your issue? The poster never said anything about the false analogy you make, not a word about “embarrassment.” She/he clearly speaks “personally” of the feeling of becoming conscious after being “intimately” violated. From where do you presume embarrassment? Your contempt for differing opinions in this thread is stark enough, but your willful distortion of meaning, childish rhetoric and ongoing hypocrisy is just ridiculous. And it shows.

tru chainz

Wow. I never said that he had the right to violate her, or anything even remotely close to it. Seriously lady? Thats not even misinterpretation that’s a straight up fabrication.

Angrymom

You couldn’t be more wrong, you should read the victim’s statement…her life is messed up forever.

tru chainz

Only if she allows it to be.

carl

do you really think that the victim will forget?

tru chainz

Even traumatic memories fade. Unless she’s got PTSD, which I highly doubt considering the fact that the event itself is not in her memory at all, yes, she will eventually be able to live as if it hadn’t happened.

Amie Trahan

You really think someone can forget the trauma and fallout from being sexually assaulted, living through the trial, and this joke of a sentence. I hope nothing like this ever happens to someone you love–you seem pretty heartless.

tru chainz

Yeah actually I do. I happen to have faith in the human ability to get through just about anything. All of you suggesting that she’s broken for life because of this are actually insulting her, though I know none of you will ever allow yourselves to see it that way.

Tom

But poor Brock won’t be able to get through it. Kinda says a lot about his personality. Somebody looks him wrong and he losses his appetite and goes into deep depression….poor Brock, poor true chainz. You both are obviously in the same situation.

tru chainz

Not even at all.

Sal Gal

So. Much. Yes. Exactly.

carl

getting through something is not the same as forgetting.

tru chainz

It’s the anyone can do though

tru chainz

*best anyone can do

Cheri Z

I am a survivor so my experience actually does have real value. My family members are in the business of educating people around the world about rape, relationships and teaching mutual respect.

Cheri Z

You are truly clueless as to what rape does to a survivor. Please educate yourself. Your ignorance is incredible. Not remembering doesn’t change the fact you are fully aware that a stranger raped you.

Sal Gal

Being a “rape survivor” myself, as you so eloquently put it, I know first hand that a brief “incident” does not have to define your entire life. Tru Chainz has provided some very sounds d logical points here and I personally agree with almost everything he’s written. Now if an “attack” were aweful and violent or a long term type of thing, I could see how that would be fairly difficult to move forward from. But his statements regarding the changes to Brooks life and future are unavoidable and inevitable. Not defending this man’s actions, please don’t read between the lines. Not saying that anyone deserves to be raped, or that he isn’t a scum bag for taking advantage of… Read more »

tru chainz

Thanks Sal. Nice to see another person on here with a little rationality.

tru chainz

I actually know a rape survivor personally, so I reject the notion that I’m completely ignorant. She got on with her life and didn’t let it define her. So can you.

AvantSwim

lol…Apologist claims to be an adherent of logic. Apologist uses his own opinion of himself as evidence. Solipsism anyone?

tru chainz

Not an apologist, as I’ve stated repeatedly I’m not defending Brock, I’m attacking the vitriol and pure hatred on here, and responding to personal attacks as they come. I’m not sure what you’re referring to with the second sentence. Clarification please?

Rumbuns

You deserve every bit of it

tru chainz

Good contribution!

swammer81

r u srs? lol try again

Scott Morgan

No need to rebut your comments, they speak for themselves. Besides, this is not an argument: Turner was actually convicted for rape, not an “incident” and is actually the criminal. You can defend him and worry about him all you want; I decline, thanks anyway.

Additionally, anyone who thinks being unconscious during an assault means it somehow never really happened, that she’s “already” forgotten about it and thus longer has to “deal” with it perhaps should look at himself–as well as any text on the effects trauma written in the past 100 years–before the judging the argumentative “credence” of someone else’s clearly stated opinion.

tru chainz

Well, apparently the swimswam moderators are on your sides, they won’t publish my responses. I’m sorry I offended everyones delicate sensibilities.

Leenz

Stop feeding the troll. How stupid can a single person be. By your reasoning, if you yourself were roofied, and therefore have no recollection of the event itself, and raped by a man, you wouldn’t be traumatized? Please have a seat.

tru chainz

Goose, I’m still not related to Brock in any way shape or form.

Silly Goose

Clearly related in mindset.

tru chainz

Still, no.

Mike E

Tru Chainz, obviously you can’t know what she is feeling. Don’t invalidate what she expresses with your opinion. Like most opinions on the Internet, it doesn’t mean sh*t.

Unless you have walked in Emily Doe’s shoes (aka; you’ve been raped while unconscious and have had to deal with all the damage and fallout from that), you can’t know what she’s gone through nor be an expert in the subject matter. So, seek to understand…it’s a messed up situation all around.

tru chainz

Your last sentence has been my point from the beginning. But since I’m trying to offer sympathy toward todays whipping boy, I am vilified. And to be totally honest, what you described has happened to me, not in the exact situation, but I have awakened from a drunken blackout to find someone having sex with me, that I’m reasonably sure I could not have consented to. But you know what? At this point no one will believe that, and even if they did, they’ve already decided I’m Brock’s father, or a rape culture advocate. So I’m just gonna keep doing what I’ve been doing, which is to provide a perspective other than “the kid and his family are scum and… Read more »

Kelly

Look, I’ve read through your position on this issue, and I get that you don’t think that Brock Turner should be “burned at the stake” or locked up for the next decade or two. I agree, to some extent. However, I think what you’re failing to understand is that much of the outrage that most people are feeling stems from the fact that the minimum sentence for the crimes he was convicted of is supposed to be two years. Before you launch into a big legal lecture, please know that I am fully aware that judges have a certain amount of discretion where sentencing is concerned. I understand that, but I see no reason why the minimum sentence should have… Read more »

mother of daughters and a son

Brock made a choice to be a rapist. The girl made a choice to drink herself into a vulnerable position. If either were my children I would be angered by their choices, but support them.

BaldingEagle

Shouldn’t someone who drinks too much have reasonable assurance that the consequences of the drinking episode be a horrible hangover, instead of sexual assault? I’m staggered by your comment, since it seems to me like you’re saying that a reasonable expectation for drinking too much is to be sexually assaulted. I myself am disgusted by people who are sloppy drunks and who have passed out. However, because I am a decent human being, I’d much rather they feel the consequences by experiencing a brutal hangover rather than to have them wake up on a hospital gurney, and then watch as nurses invasively inspect their genitals for dirt, debris, and injuries.

Henry UK

I’m curious- Support them how? The rapist’s family is a tough position to be in.

tru chainz

Side note-I’m not. At all.

tru chainz

Nah I think I’ve made my points. If you don’t like them, try separating actual logic from your knee jerk emotional reactions and I bet they make more sense. To give you an example, that’s how judges and courts of law work.

daisy

Tru Chainz, She hasn’t forgotten anything, because she was unconscious when the assault happened. But that doesn’t mean she is not severely traumatized and will not be suffering from it for perhaps her entire life. She will. Her life has been changed forever as well. Such a short sentence sends the signal that his future is worth more than she is, because of his status. It sends the signal that women’s rights aren’t really worth bothering about when the lad involved is a good Christian boy like Brock. Imagine if you woke up in an ER, bleeding from your anus, with grass and leaves in your rectum, because someone had been shoving something up there. Strangers are poking and prodding… Read more »

Cynthia mae Curran

Well, its a hard listen to learn in life.

tru chainz

Why do you and so many others feel as though one single event has to define someones life? Does the worst thing thats ever happened to you define who you are as a human being? I certainly hope not. And I highly doubt that will be the case for this girl. She won’t be reminded of it every time she moves to a new place. She won’t have to tell the neighbors about it. She won’t be reminded of it every time she tries to get a job. She won’t be reminded of it whenever she wants to buy a computer. He will. And, yet again, I am not defending Brock. He got what he deserved, so saith the judge… Read more »

Timber

In all honesty Tru Chainz, yes the worst thing that happens to a person does define them. However, how it defines them though really depends on the person and the event. Just cause that worst event defines a person doesn’t make that a negative thing, there are plenty of people that reach rock bottom and find the strength to turn their life around. I think the victim here can go on a live a happy life, and I truly hope she does. Based on her statement shes seems to have a great support system backing her. The thing is though is she going to have to go down a very tough road to do so. How long that will take… Read more »

Sal Gal

Perfect. Thank you.

spectatorn

“why do you and so many others feel as though one single event has to define someones life?”

Because some “single event” do. It is an important distinction to learn.
Rape or sex without consent is one of those “single event”

His father’s letter showed that he failed to see the distinction and so assume would not have taught his son otherwise. The reaction in the comments target the outcome that Brock Turner is receiving a lenient sentence for 3 felony charges in his case.

tru chainz

It only defines you if you let it. THAT is the distinction that you all don’t understand.

spectatorn

For her, this single event of rape does not define her. She had already working towards moving on. However, moving on does not mean no effect of this single event of rape may stay with her.
For him, this single event of rape defines him. His continuous denial is not helping him to change that either.

this is the distinction, and this is a distinction that most in here understand.

Lisa

You are the one who does not understand. Or perhaps you do and are just enjoying the attention. In either case I’ve said my piece and am done with you.

tru chainz

You’ll be missed!

Cynthia mae Curran

Well, I would support reducing his sentence if he becomes involved in rescuing girls from human trafficking. Girls are force into prostitution at young ages, so its the closest thing to help girls after you assaulted a young woman.

Tru Chainz 2 Troll

yeah lets talk about the logic of assuming that simply because someone has no memory of an event it can’t have any lasting impact. Unfortunately for Brock, dealing with the fallout of decisions is a simple fact of life that applies to everyone. He’ll have plenty of opportunity to explain to future employers, friends and neighbors how dealing with the fallout allowed him to grow and change. Or him and his dad will continue to make excuses and he’ll learn nothing. Either way no one feels sorry for him.

tru chainz

Well I do. And I don’t really care what y’all think. This is just another internet hate-session, like you’d find in a youtube comment section or something. The kid got his punishment, and its going to affect, in all likelihood, the rest of his life. The justice system did what it does. The fact that all of you don’t seem to think the punishment is severe enough is totally irrelevant, and frankly to me some of you seem medieval with your ideas on crime and punishment. The only thing I’m doing here is rebutting some of the more ridiculous and emotionally driven responses, and replying to some personal digs as well. Why? Because I think its the right thing to… Read more »

BeLogical

6 months for 3 felony sexual assault counts is not an appropriate sentencing, by any standard. That is the biggest issue. The other issue is also whether the judge should have recused himself as previous Stanford Grad and college athlete. These are not opinions they are legally backed facts (that the sentence was too light) and that the judge was biased.

Lisa

He’s a young man not a kid. Thinking that a young man who rapes an unconscious woman, takes no responsibility for it, and shows no remorse deserves more than 6 months in prison and was given that light sentence because, paraphrasing here, prison would be hard on him is medieval? Ridiculous. As ridiculous as dad’s letter about how poor Brick can’t enjoy his steak anymore.

Maverick

Obviously you do care. Why else would you keep defending your indefensible position in a public forum? Diddling with words won’t undo what you are. It only makes it more clear to anyone reading this thread.

tru chainz

It needs to be said. And what, in your opinion, am I exactly, detective?

tru chainz

Also, “undo what I am?” Who are you, Van Helsing? lol

The-dogg

I hope you never have a daughter. If you do and she is in the same sitaution, I guarantee you position will change.

Sulli

“She has probably forgotten” … that’s rather sickening to say

tru chainz

That’s not a quote. Not from me anyway.

carl

you should go back and read what you wrote.

It won’t let me post an image… “Again, seeing what you want to see, not whats there. What I wrote (which you can find by scrolling up, so its kinda sad that you keep misrepresenting it) was that Brock would be affected for decades longer than the victim will be by the fallout. As for forgetting about it, that is a fact, from the case. She had no memory of the incident.

Maybe you are hallucinating?”

those are your words. are they not? I am pretty darn sure I am not hallucinating.

tru chainz

That’s correct. Is there a point to that?

carl

I reckon I could be just as enlightened talking to the wall in my living room as trying to understand why you don’t stand by your own comments, and then you don’t see the point in a thread where you deny saying something, and someone quotes your words verbatim. “Is there a point to that?” yes, there is. I wonder if you are somehow related to Turner, since you, like both Turner and his father, don’t appear to feel that this young lady has been traumatized by this event.

Sure she may get past it, but it will take years of therapy for that to happen. Even then, she will have setbacks.

tru chainz

At this point the thread has become so disorganized that I can’t even tell which comments are in reply to which, and apparently you can’t either, thus the source of your confusion.

tru chainz

So talk to the light in your living room, Carl. I couldn’t care less about the things you wonder about.

Amie Trahan

You totally said that, “…forgotten all about it. In fact, she already has, since she had no memory of the incident anyway.” That’s directly quoted from your above statement.

tru chainz

I said something similar. But if you put it in quotes, you gotta get the wording right. Those things are important. You know, cuz facts and all.

Bob

It was directly copied from your thread.

tru chainz

Okay, apparently there was a misunderstanding. Do you have some point that hasn’t been addressed somewhere else on the thread? Cuz frankly I doubt it

Bob

Brock will be dealing with the fallout from this for decades after the victim has forgotten all about it. In fact, she already has, since she had no memory of the incident anyway.

Pretty similar-
And are you saying that rape victims “forget all about it”

tru chainz

Similar, but not a quote. And I’m saying in this instance, she didn’t remember the incident. That’s a fact. I suppose technically “forgot” isn’t correct since she never formed a memory of it to begin with due to her intoxication.

Pat Costello

I don’t know how often you have been battered in an orifice by fingers to the point of bruising, but, I think you would remember the muscle and torn tissue pain afterwards. It might help if you went to court and see the rape perpetuated by the defense with questions meant to trip you up, like telling you that you invited him to drag you unconscious to a dirty dumpster and by being unconscious you gave him permission to stick his fingers in you violently, while humping you and slobbering all over you. I think you would remember that emotional pain.

Scott Morgan

You spend a lot of time not making points. Only points I can see are 1) poor criminal; 2) victim is fine. You’re entitled to them, sure. Congrats.

tru chainz

At no point did I say either of those things. But you do seem like the kind of person that doesn’t look at what’s actually there, just what you want to see. Which you’re entitled to do. Congrats on your ignorance

Scott Morgan

I’ll have to let any fair minded reader arbitrate this issue: unless I am hallucinating you actually wrote that this “incident” (rape) would only affect the convicted felon, not the victim who you claim “has forgotten all about it.”

MsScher

He’s an ignorant, immature troll. I suggest ignoring him

tru chainz

Neither is the case. But ignoring the truth because you don’t like it falls under the category or ignorance and immaturity.

Katz

I wonder what would be your conclusion if the raped victim would’ve been your sister, mother, friend. I think you would’ve consider your answers/responses before posting them.

tru chainz

Again, seeing what you want to see, not whats there. What I wrote (which you can find by scrolling up, so its kinda sad that you keep misrepresenting it) was that Brock would be affected for decades longer than the victim will be by the fallout. As for forgetting about it, that is a fact, from the case. She had no memory of the incident.

Maybe you are hallucinating?

Ag So

Basic understanding of human psychology would tell you that, indeed, the detailed memory of the attack fades, but the emotional scarring causes a ripple effect, often growing like a black hole in the victim’s emotions.
In simple words, it stays with you forever, echoing in all decisions you make thereafter – from fear of intimacy resulting in not starting a family, to depression and anxiety, affecting all other areas of life.

You might want to read up on how deeply violating and traumatising it is for a woman to be raped, it’s not a case of your dog dying or being dumped by a boyfriend.

Think

It’s not the memory of the night of the incident that needs to exist to suffer from what has happened to her. It’s the effects of the night of the incident that will be with her the rest of her life. The argument is that the effects of that night for the perpetrator (rapist) should last equally as long if not longer and even more harsh – even after his jail sentence which I believe was light given the range the judge could have applied for a rape case.

Is that clear, Tru Chainz?

tru chainz

Yes, I understand your position, you presented it clearly.

Spence

I love how your assumption that because the victim wasn’t conscious she won’t be effected long term – equally ridiculous is your stance the perpetrator is bearing the burden of his choices unfairly. Let me reiterate – HIS choice to commit the crime.

daisy

As I said, she hasn’t forgotten. That is just a stupid thing to say.

Athena

If you read the letter that the victim wrote, it clearly shows that she is deeply affected by the incident. As a rape survivor myself who was in a similar situation as the victim in this case, I know that I’ll be affected for the rest of my life by what happened to me. Turner committed a crime, he deserves to be punished.

tru chainz

If you will be affected FOR THE REST OF YOUR LIFE, not just for a long time, not just for a period of years, BUT FOR THE REST OF YOUR LIFE, by any event, ever, that’s a choice you’re making for yourself. That will probably get more hate than any of my other comments, but its true.

ElevatorToTheEscalator

wow. it takes a particular sort of morally bankrupt cretin to yell down at someone who tells her own survival story and her own experiences. not even a “i’m srry for your pain” or “i hope you received some justice” or “thanks for the courage to express your point of view.

instead, the p.o.s. is allowed to shout with caps (hypocrit!) that essentially she should get over it.

dubjayswimmer

Are you seriously insinuating the people choose to have their lives ruined by sexual assault? Something that traumatic isn’t as easy to get over as you may think. This girl didn’t choose to be assaulted by him, and she didn’t choose to suffer the violation, humiliation and terror she feels now. Of course she can do her move on, but she will never look at life the way she used to.

Angrymom

You have obviously never been thru trauma, can you imagine for a moment you wake up and some dude is *in* you, could you rest easy ever again? that sort of thing legit messes you up for life.

LoveBio

That is YOUR version of truth… I’m sure Santa Claus resides in your fantasy world, too.

daisy

By your logic, you are saying that if Brock is affected for the rest of his life it’s his choice. I don’t hate you, and I think you probably aren’t a rapist. But if you think that being raped isn’t something that you carry with you for the rest of your life, you are wrong. You live through it and move through life, but it is always there. I know – I was abducted and raped at 18. That was bad enough, but the attitude of the police was the worst part – they told me I deserved it because I was hitching to see my boyfriend in another town. Yeah, I’ve worked through a lot. And I’m 64 and… Read more »

tru chainz

I did read the letter. And I don’t hate you either.

Lee

‘I’m certain Brock will be dealing with the fallout from this for decades’
By your logic, that’s a choice he would be making as well.
If the victim of his crime can be expected to move past what happened to her, he should be able to cope with a lengthy prison sentence as mandated by law, not this ridiculous slap on the wrist.

tru chainz

The difference being that “moving on” is a choice that anyone can make at any time. You can’t just “move on” from legal restrictions on various aspects of your life.

Dhughes

Can’t do the time, don’t do the crime

Aldz

You can’t just move on from legal consequences, but you can make the right choice from the beginning and not commit multiple sexual felonies.
He made a choice. He made the wrong one. The only thing he’s sorry for is getting caught.

Amie Trahan

If one doesn’t want legal restrictions, then one shouldn’t commit crimes…boo hoo for poor Turner boy.

tru chainz

You’re taking one comment out of context.

Stefano

You clearly have not ever been affected by something as serious as rape, let alone have even taken the time to see the victims statement. This is definitely something that is going to affect her as well as the millions of other victims out there who don’t get to go to trial nor get the attention that this case is thankfully getting. If you don’t have an understanding of how this woman is going to be affected for the rest of her life you really shouldn’t be commenting about it. Yes, maybe years of therapy will make her less prone to dependance and fear, but this incident will always be in the back of her mind as well as her… Read more »

tru chainz

Actually I did read the statement.

daisy

That is true, nor should he. He will serve a tiny sentence. And he will be on those lists. I’d like to be able to look ahead 10 years and see what actually happens. I’ll bet it isn’t going to be al that bad.

Scott Morgan

OK, i get it now, if I didn’t earlier: rapists have no choice, Victims on the other hand make their own destinies.

Sorry, the only one abusing logic here is you, let alone ethics.

tru chainz

lol okay buddy. Even for you thats an absurd misrepresentation of what I said.

Scott Morgan

Please, Swimswam, there should be some standards of decency.

tru chainz

Don’t worry your bleeding heart over it, they’re already censoring me.

Scott Morgan

No need to be emotional: as you yourself say “Capital letters … don’t lend credence to your argument.” Neither do cheap ad hominem dismissals, or appeals to being a victim of censorship.

tru chainz

an ad hominem logical fallacy is attacking the person making the argument, not the argument itself. Where exactly have I attacked you personally, Mr. Morgan? I’m also not “appealing to being a victim of anything,” simply stating facts. Which I have been doing, this entire time.

Scott Morgan

Vulgar comment, vulgar reasoning.

tru chainz

Emotional response, no actual rebuttal here.

Scott Morgan

No rebuttal needed: you cannot predict the future as to what either of these people will be dealing with, any more than you can claim to know what the victim remembers or how long or in what ways she will be affected. You also disingenuously claim that she “in fact” has “already” forgotten: clear nonsense, however pathetically you try to claim being misquoted, or whatever semantic games you use. Your above statement is opinion, not fact, and to argue differently is to show your lack of intellectual honesty. Moreover–and I’ll state it again–your perspective belies a vulgar dismissal of the victim’s own legal testimony and impact statement as to the actual ongoing trauma of the actual crime, and an even… Read more »

RashDa

Are you for real when you say the victim will forget about this! Let me tell you this as a woman, when we get groped by random strangers in a public place, when we get pinched, touched, catcalled, we never ever forget about it, as hard as we might try, even if it happened when we were merely 15 years old, even if it has been 20 years since. So imagine getting raped! Even if you were drunk, you will remember!

Fiveos

Let me be the first to say, only a complete idiot writes a letter like that. The apple didn’t fall far from the tree.

cbusswimpops

FIVEOS – your comment is concise & spot on.
As is almost always the case; a parent of the assailant is incapable of stepping back and looking at the situation from the victim’s perspective, that would require admitting ‘FAILURE’ in one of the most critical areas of parenting – ‘ treat others how you want to be treated’. I wonder how Dan A would feel if that type of assault happened to his daughter, should he have a daughter.

Standing up for justice

Let this be a lesson — one that should not have to be explained in such kindergarten terms — There are lifelong consequences for certain criminal acts, and raping a woman is a criminal act, and it SHOULD have lifelong consequences. I don’t have one ounce of sympathy for the impact this is having on the criminal. Boo hoo. It’s called a consequence, and it’s appropriate. Every bit of anxiety he is experiencing is a fraction of what his victim is experiencing. Don’t misdirect your sympathy. And who knows how many other young women he’s done this to and just hasn’t been caught. His act is not the act of a man with any integrity or conscience. It’s appalling.

MGG

I believe the statistic is that 1 in every 4 cases of reported rape is when a male is raped. Those are reported cases, so unless there is a statistic that takes into account unreported cases, which would be sketchy at best, I don’t think more men are raped than women.

anonymouse

Actually, in the US, more men are raped than women . . . by a WIDE margin.

tru chainz

Source? I honestly find that a little hard to believe, but I suppose it’s not impossible.

About Jared Anderson

Jared Anderson

Jared Anderson just can’t stay away from the pool. A competitive career of almost two decades wasn’t enough for this Minnesotan, who continues to get his daily chlorine fix. A lifelong lover of writing, Jared now combines the two passions as Senior Reporter for SwimSwam.com, covering swimming at every level. He’s an …

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