Podcaster and Investigative journalist Pablo Torre has partnered with Mother Jones to release the most comprehensive podcast to date about the Riley Gaines and Lia Thomas saga – though it also included new information about former Kentucky coaches Chip Kline and Lars Jorgensen.
The podcast PABLO TORRE FINDS OUT, which was named one of Apples top podcasts of 2025 in part because of its work to uncover an NBA scandal that involved fraudulently paying players, took on the big, sprawling, and increasingly-visible saga that took Gaines from an All-American swimmer to one of the most visible figures in American politics.
The podcast, which the algorithm simultaneously pushed to every swim-fans social media feeds on Thursday morning, is supported by Madison Pauly from left-leaning investigative outlet Mother Jones, who did most of the leg-work on the story.
Pauly and Torres also dig into how much money she has made as a political figure. The pair reports that Gaines was paid a $25,000 appearance fee in 2025 by Harris County Republicans, a Republican political group in Houston, Texas, which is roughly 8x more than she made for an appearance in Kentucky in 2023. She made $126,532 from the Riley Gaines Center at the Leadership Institute in 5 months as a spokesperson, which in turn was funded by the DeVos Family.
Besides giving a comprehensive (and balanced) recap of the Gaines/ Thomas story and many of its tendrils (including Gaines’ connection to now-banned coach Lars Jorgensen), in the podcast, Pauly and Torres dig into the money that is fueling Gaines’ rise, and interviews other members of the Kentucky team who were there at the time about both Jorgensen and Gaines.
The public (and private) reaction has been significant and divided along ideological lines, with conservative commenters writing it off as a nothing-burger without significant new information, trying to paint Gaines in a bad light, and more liberal commenters viewing it as a peeling back of the curtain of the money that drives modern political discourse.
If nothing else, it is a comprehensive recap of the story that may bring more depth of understanding to the situation for those who might only have passing headline-driven familiarity with the saga and its many players.
From a hardcore swimming perspective, getting first-hand recounting of the Lars Jorgensen leg of the story might be the most interesting piece, via an interview with former Wildcat Trinity Ward – though that wasn’t the main focus of the podcast. This piece starts around the 15-minute mark.
It also discusses an investigation into sexual harassment by former Kentucky assistant coach Chip Kline, further feeding into a picture of disfunction within the program.
Ward also discusses Gaines’ evolution from a more moderate conservative who self-described as “not really a Trump person” to a leading figure in that Trump movement.
Oh baby, here comes a stream-of-consciousness billion word post!!
I’ve been listening to select PTFO episodes for a couple months now – they truly turn out TOO much stuff – but this might be one of their best scripted ones.
I say because initially listening to it, I was like…wait. Did they miss a bunch of Lars Jorgenson crimes?! (Early on in the episode, they spoke about seemingly new allegations against Chip Kline, but didn’t really say anything about Jorgenson’s much more serious ones.)
Turns out nope, saving it for the end made it just that much more impactful. They’re really good at this!
But even before they got back to the Jorgenson stuff, and the greater… Read more »
Good pod. Has anyone read the piece yet and know if it’s significantly different?? (I just wish I had the time…)
I know I’m a bit late to this but…
I listened and read. The article covers mostly the same ground with one important addition:
Hawking the horse-dewormer Ivermectin for human consumption should instantaneously disqualify her from any consideration she might be rational.
Riley doesn’t say a word about the Title IX complaints by Lars and Chip. Only cares about Riley. What a joke.
Also, thoughts on your savior Trump? Nope. She doesn’t care about all the victims by Epstein. Just her 5th place finish. Riley is not a good human.
I am going to eat up this podcast WITH A SPOON.
If Trans Athletes were taking over Women’s Sports people would be able to name more than one Trans Athlete who won an NCAA Championship…
Before racing Gaines, Thomas absolutely smashed two of the women’s records in other events. After the media started taking notice, Thomas suddenly started swimming slower, legs barely moving. I wonder why?
But even if Thomas had come last in every race, Thomas’s presence in the women’s category would be unjustified and unfair.
What do you people actually think the differences are between men and women anyway?
Lia Thomas did not “absolutely smash” any NCAA Records at the meet, and only swam one other event before she raced Gaines. Whatever source told you that she “absolutely smashed two of the women’s records in other events,” you should strike from your list of credible sources.
The only race she had before the 200 free was the 500 free, and she was nine seconds slower than the NCAA/American/US Open record in that event.
The same year Thomas won the 500 free at the NCAAs with a 4:33.24, 3 teenage girls broke 4:30 in that event. Of course, they happened to be Katie Grimes, Bella Sims, and Summer McIntosh, but it demonstrates that the main reason for Thomas’s success was a weaker field of competitors at that point in time.
What new information did the podcast include about Chip Kline?
Wait, so RG is just a grifter who is making bank off demonising one of the most vulnerable groups of people in existence?
Also want to point out that RG does not care about women’s sports at all. Even if you don’t want trans women in sports, you are just lying to yourself if you think RG is trying to help women at all.
The vast majority of her posts aren’t even about women or sport, they’re just attacking the LGBT community. Also she made fun of Simone Biles for being sexually assaulted by a male staff member as part of her sport… apparently that’s “protecting women”. Lying about trans women but then harassing women in sports who have actually been harmed by men.
all the downvotes are monsters.