Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gFOxds60XDA
I’m Mel Stewart and this is a GMM podcast.
Joining me today, Ohio State Associate Head Coach Brian Schrader.
I asked Brian to come on after his February 16th public statement on Instagram, which was coined and critical of the College Swimming Coaches Association and their changes to the 2026 Swimming and Diving D1 Championships.
Brian said he could come on, but he wouldn’t be representing Ohio State, that he would be representing himself.
These are his personal opinions, but also he is a coach who has 30 years of experience at the D1 level across D1 men major and power four.
And he also has a lot of governance experience.
He’s been on the ISA board.
He’s been on the college swimming coaches associations executive board.
He most recently was a USA swimming on that coaches advisory committee.
If this topic interests you, I think this podcast is going to land for you.
He does not parse his words.
Brian Trader, how you doing, buddy?
Yeah, Mel.
How you doing?
I’m I’m good.
This is this is I think this is going to be a a tough conversation but a productive conversation.
One that probably should have happened long ago and it is happening now because we do what we typically do in swimming which is we talk amongst ourselves.
Often times we can be angry about certain decisions being made and people don’t go public and speak out about it. you went public in a statement February 16th and it was a bold statement and it was seven frames and it’s almost as if when you made the statement I should say this everybody that I know that is a decision maker or who cares or has skin in the game regarding the changes to D1 swimming and diving championships read it because my phone blew up and it was a little bit annoying I didn’t get anything done for for a period of time all right but the statement was it was clear it sounded like you almost were thinking through the questions that people would ask you when you made this statement.
And and just as as as you know, you you came out of the out of the gate hot.
As a former mid- major head coach who qualified and scored athletes, including rare relay invites, I believe the golden ticket approach overreaches.
I went to Swim Swam reporters and said, “Hey, throw me some questions.” And that was the first question they asked and said, “How would he feel if he were still at Denver and these changes were made?” And I think that you answer that.
There’s been places that just as been majors have have have gotten it done, right?
Like Dave Collins and Missouri State, Army, Navy, Air Force, the Ivy’s, Grand Canyon, right?
Like San Jose, San Jose State.
I mean, I can just list off places that qualified kids and got it done.
And San Diego State, those it takes a lot of work, like a lot of work, a lot of coaching, a lot of recruiting.
I don’t think people realize, right?
And it’s a significant accomplishment. really fun.
Just can’t think of anything more fun than to get noticed by your peers and have athletes at the most elite level.
Right.
Yes.
So, and let’s I’m going to move through I’m gonna move through your statement and but I’m going to drop down to you address this.
You address the golden ticket and since we’re on this topic, let’s let’s dig into it a little bit.
All right.
You say, yeah, you’re like NC2AS is is is the fastest meet on earth.
And we’re not basketball.
This isn’t a Cinderella story and we’re not track and field.
It’s a there’s a it’s a different it’s a different animal, different format, and you you make it it’s it’s a badge of honor.
Can you talk further on that?
Can you you know, can you talk to me about feedback you’re hearing from your peers on this one point on the qualifying?
It’s definitely coaches, it it’s our sport.
It’s swimming.
It’s always been about earn it, right?
Everybody’s always been about earn it.
If you’re the fastest, you get to go.
Why would we ever change that?
Why are we why are we bringing in a third of the field that has people that are faster than they are?
That’s very frustrating to think about.
And it’s not true to who we are.
One iota, right?
Like we we had the fastest meet in the world.
You wanted to be elite.
You made it there on your own individually.
Top 27 in the world for men, top 37 for women.
You you are swimming at a very very high level.
This is division one sports, right?
This is the pinnacle of college athletics.
There should not be a handout. a period at the end of that statement.
You’re like, “Period.” I would be lying if I didn’t hear that from a lot of coaches, but it it’s nobody made a statement.
It’s been anger and some frustration behind the scenes.
So, let’s let’s I just wanted since you brought it up, I wanted to to dive into it a little bit.
We’ll probably get into it again later on.
There’s something that you you say very definitively and you put it in big bold font.
These decisions were made without adequate consultation, with questionable timing, and poor poor leadership. you’re you’re bringing it you’re you’re you’re you’re putting it on the table and and and to to be very precise about this Suyam did an interview with the executive director of College Swimming Coach Association Sam Barney and we we asked her some hard questions and I would say if I had to to to crystallize that conversation into you know a few lines of of content it would be that we had to make change. these changes might not work, but we’re going to make changes and we’re going to be we’re hopeful that they will be strong, but if they’re not strong, we’re going to course correct as we go.
So, it sounded like there was confidence in the changes, but also this caveat that hey, it might not work and we’ll we can always course correct.
Is is that enough?
Is that is there frustrating?
Did you see that that that interview?
I watched the interview, you know, but here’s my frustration.
We had to make changes.
I don’t think we had to make changes.
My that’s my personal opinion, right?
Why are we making changes right now in a hurry and so many changes that we can’t even evaluate what what we like and what we don’t like, right?
We have the AQ.
Either they did their homework and blew the meet up or they didn’t do their homework.
And now we have a a situation that might or might not be good as far as who’s invited to the meet.
We have a new format.
We have more than 50% of lost opportunities swimming at night.
B files.
Yeah, B files are gone.
All those things.
And we did that all without any guarantees.
And as a coach, why are we giving up opportunities again?
We lost roster spots.
We’re losing opportunities everywhere else.
And now we’re going to shrink the opportunities again.
It makes it as a coach, I don’t understand it.
For anybody out there listening, when you’re saying how we lost opportunities without any guarantees in one specific place, you’re saying, “Hey, we didn’t get any assurances from ESPN about our production.
We’re going to get rid of B Finals, but what does that mean for our production? like how much better is it going to be and you know how much skin in the game does ESPN have when swimming rights and diving rights are swept up in all of these other rights and they’re really just kind of servicing that contract and servicing swimming do you know what is what is ESPN going to do for us I was a little bit surprised by the answer from Sam Barney the college swimming coach association executive director when it did that didn’t feel like that was button down she did say that she consulted television experts and we I I think you and I both know who that is she was talking about one person who has an enormous amount of experience who was is coronated.
I don’t want to say his name.
I don’t want to throw him under the bus, but if this something goes wrong, but he has Emmys, but we still didn’t get guarantees like I’m my here’s and this is an example of a guarantee.
If you’re going to if we’re going to eliminate Binals and we’re going to have this new souped up NC2A championships, will ESPN spend real money? meaning will they will they go out to Ohio State and and fly there and then create pre-roll stories, you know, with our biggest schools and and and use that in in in in the production.
And my understanding is that that has not happened.
And if it’s not live, why can’t they just edit out the Binals?
I mean, that’s seems elementary.
You you go on to say that the narrative that coaches were fully consulted does not align with what you experienced.
Explain that.
I think there were a lot of concepts discussed.
I don’t think the elimination of the B finals was ever presented to anybody that had any influence until there were meetings in August that happened and people all of a sudden we lost the B finals.
I I think ASA got some input, but I’m not quite sure that they got input where the B finals were going to be eliminated.
I I’ll never know.
I’m not speaking for ASA, but when I speak to my peers and I speak to people that are on the board, they have they don’t have a lot of recollection of that and I don’t really understand where that came from.
And because any power four coach would not have agreed to that.
I don’t know one coach that would have said that sounds great.
For anybody listening, let me put some context on this.
The back when this was discussed and and everyone was was roped in and coaches were consulted and ASA was consulted.
My understanding is that was early in the process there was a lot of fear driving those conversations.
College swimming, college swimming and diving is in peril and we need to make changes.
Everyone agreed.
There’s general consensus.
We need to make changes and we need to save college swimming.
And my understanding was that an organization like ASCA was in these early conversations, but then they deferred to college swimming coaches association to manage this and they all agreed.
The changes that came later, these certain specific changes were not, let’s just say, ASCA wasn’t aware of all the changes that were made as this process was happening.
That’s my understanding and everyone’s scratching their head a little bit because the the changes are are dramatic.
I I have to tell you this as somebody who runs a media company.
I saw the changes and I was like this is a lot.
So I swam into two days.
I’m like this was a lot.
But my one question was okay what are we getting from ESPN?
Are we are we getting more coverage better coverage?
Yeah.
So in terms of in terms of representation and coaches being represent and I’ll go I’ll go back to this.
When when I started asking the hard questions I got a lot of push back.
Well, you didn’t come to convention.
And I’ll be honest, that really set that did not sit well with me, right?
I’ve been to a lot of conventions.
I was on the board and at the convention, they didn’t discuss the proposal that went forward and got approved.
And that is a minority representation of the coaches that that they represent, right?
I’m a dues paying member.
I should have had a say.
In this day and age, you can find out what people want to think of an actual in detail proposal if they want to provide feedback.
And that was never given.
Okay.
What what is who who goes to convention?
Coaches that have the time and the resources.
You’ve been there.
What’s what’s attendance like?
And how and how representative of it is of of our of our coaches?
I would say that the power four is under reppresented at that time of the season because people in power four have gone back to work.
It’s been on a Grand Prix weekend lately.
So coaches are out coaching, recruiting, getting people ready for the summers, right?
So it’s hard to get to convention, I think, if you’re a power four coach.
Now, I’m not saying that people don’t go.
If it’s close, if it’s regional, people make the drive.
People get over there.
But if you’re having to pick between a flight here and a flight to coach your athletes and do what you do, I probably know which way people are headed, right?
There’s a lot of D3, there’s a lot of D2.
It’s a wonderful convention.
I love it.
Right.
They’ve done a great job with convention from start until where it’s grown now, but it is not a legislative convention like USA Swimming.
How’s that?
And your point is I shouldn’t have to be there to be represented.
That’s that that sounds like it was insulting to you.
You’re a dues paying member.
I don’t have to be at convention to be represented.
That is exactly how I felt.
That came across that way and it came across that way in your statement.
Have you had any conversations with college association in you know on background since this since you know before you made your statement?
I have not had any conversations with current leadership.
What’s concerning to me, and I’ll bring it up because I think it needs to be discussed, is, you know, this mid- major golden ticket that has been floating around for a long time.
I I do understand how organizations can can move politically when someone has an idea and they sit on that idea and they wait for the opportunity to implement it.
And it sounds to me like you’re saying that’s what we’ve seen evolve here.
Fair statement.
Fair enough.
Fair enough.
Okay.
Interesting. it.
I understand why that a smaller roster, potential smaller roster and and the current changes that they are would would benefit coaches in that in that stratosphere.
What sort of a voice do you think there was a coalition of coaches that were D1 mid major that were were pushing this?
I honestly don’t know the answer to that, but the committee both at the NC2A committee and a CSA committee is heavily represented by men majors.
I’m I’m a former elite and I and it’s it’s it’s but I have to ask the question.
And it’s like a should should swimming be be driven top down always?
I mean I’m I’m biased.
I think so.
But you know, should it be?
I I don’t know if it should be, but our championships should have a definition of elite.
And I don’t think there I don’t think that definition can apply right now.
So if we if if the powers that be are deciding what our championships should look like and we’re division one championships, then it should be the hardest.
The best should be there.
The very best should be there.
People that earn it should be there.
Let’s let’s stick a pen in that right now and let’s we’ll go off into into we’re looking into our crystal ball and we’re in living in the future and suddenly you know Sam has assured us that they know that there’s been things are going to go great and what if NC2A is an extraordinary production and ESPN delivers?
Will you be would you be surprised?
What do you think the likelihood of of that happening is?
Well, I’m I’m not optimistic, but I would embrace it.
I mean, I I mean, if if it’s gonna put if something is happening that’s going to put swimming in front of everybody’s eyeballs, okay, right?
But I don’t think this is it.
I wonder is is is college swimming really driven how much is college swimming driven by this one event and pushing the audience that much bigger.
Everybody wants it, but I don’t know what the economic impact is.
I don’t know there there has to be a it has to be a certain scale for it to really matter.
And I know we all want to get there, but I feel like this is something that would be developed over four to eight years if we’re trying to reach the scale because the truth is the scale is 20,000 people watching, you know, a couple million tuning in live and and even then that’s that’s that’s great for ESPN, that’s great for a host, but what does that mean for individual programs?
And and these are not unusual problems, right?
Like this is not just college swimming.
It’s swimming every year except the Olympic year.
Yes.
So, I don’t know that college swimming is going to solve the problem by altering its championships currently.
You’re coming out soon, February 16th.
He made this statement.
I’m sure you’ve been thinking this.
How long have you been thinking this?
You’ve been thinking this a long time.
Yeah.
You know, I had a good conversation with another top five power head coach and I was I just asked him.
I said, “How did you react to these changes?” And he said, first of all, it was the loss of the Binals were not something he expected whatsoever.
And then he said, “I did what coaches do. do I take care of my athletes?
I put my head down and I told them that we’re going to get ready for this and this is what we have to get ready for.
And I think that that was a wave of what good coaches do, right?
We just started telling our athletes, this is what’s happening and we’re going to get ready for this.
And that wave passed over us and now the rip tide’s coming back.
The EB is coming back and we’re we’re a little bit mad, right?
And and I think that that’s how I felt about it, right?
Like I was pretty upset.
I think I rang the bell pretty hard when I heard about it, right?
Calling some peers, calling people out like why didn’t you say anything?
And you know, most of the people that I call didn’t know.
And I think they felt humbled or I don’t know the right word, but they just had to go with it, right?
Because I think that they were talking concepts and they were on board and then this happened and you know, now they’re losing athlete opportunities.
Now they’re losing BFAs.
They don’t know what’s going to happen with rosters now, right?
Like because if we’re moving to there’s so many things to consider.
You’re you’re pretty pointed.
You said college coach Association must be held accountable.
Lost.
Yeah.
Lost.
You go you go you really far in this.
And we’re only as good as our athletes and they they have affected a significant amount of division one athletes at the championship level.
And that bothers me.
It bothers me that a coaches association took away opportunities.
Swimsome hasn’t reported how many fast athletes are going to be left off the deck.
We will and there’ll probably be a few reports about that crunching the data.
It’s in terms of in terms of pain points for I I don’t want to rake pain, but it’s like it loss of B finals and then our faster swimmers being left off the deck.
If if it were one or the other, I think you’d still be mad, but if it were one or the other, could you choose the the least of the evils?
Well, here’s here’s the thing. you know that the alarm bell is ringing that we need to save mid- major programs, right?
Although we’re losing as many power four programs as we are mid- major programs.
Everybody’s worried like and I don’t having been at the mid- major level, I don’t think championship appearances are going to affect whether or not your mid- major program is going to be retained or not.
And I’m speaking from experience, right?
I think that that is that is a because we’re talking about one or two athletes every five years.
We’re not talking about one or two athletes every year.
For most of the mid- majors that qualify, it’s one one and one in a generation, right?
You get the recruiting, then you develop them, they make one or two appearances, and then they graduate.
I think a few programs recruit well enough that they make repeated appearances.
And I’ll hold up Akran as one of those programs.
He’s always got women in NC2A, but you know, those these mid- major programs, some of them there some teams are tuition drivers, right?
They are welcome at the university because they’re bringing 30 athletes in a single gender program to play pay a lot of tuition.
Most of these programs aren’t fully funded.
So I don’t think a championship appearance is going to fix whether or not a mid- major gets dropped.
Right.
That was the follow-up question at the end.
That’s that that is a big argument that hey athletic departments in the mid in D1 mid- major will be deciding on programs and if if they have athletes on deck at D1 and NC instit championships and then they’re going to keep them and then the CSA had offered a solution to this pro this this problem which I don’t think is a problem with their NIC meet right that was supposed to be directed towards mid- majors the CICA makes a good gate on that but they’re not offering up free hotel rooms for the mid majors to get there and the power four fill that meet up so If you’re serious about helping the mid- majors, don’t let the power four come to that meat.
They have their own meat and help out the mid- majors that need some help getting there.
Just seems like we had a solution that was working or on the way to working.
You tell me.
Have you spoken to anyone, any peer in this profession who has that is that who is celebrating these changes, who’s excited about these changes?
There are some outliers, I think, that that love the idea that schools that haven’t been there are going to make an appearance, right? new swim caps and the Heats, athletes that wouldn’t normally get to compete at this level are getting a championship experience.
Of course, those people are excited, you know, and they did their job under the current rules, right?
Like, it’s hard not to celebrate for them, but this is an anomaly, right?
I hope it’s a blip.
And, you know, I I’ve seen the CSA correspondents come back out where they are leaning in.
They are leaning in saying that there will be an evaluation.
They want input, all the things, but they’re not guaranteeing anything and they’re not talking about we’re going to put the B Finals back when clearly everybody wants the B finals back.
Sam did say that in the podcast the their recent statement in a newsletter was shared with me and they talked about yes, we’re going to evaluate and and and correct our our our trajectory if if if need be.
It sounds like you’re not very you’re you’re not optimistic that that’s going to be the case.
Well, it wasn’t the case when we started, right?
Okay.
So, I can I can only go on with what’s happened, right?
So, I just want to ring the bell and make sure it doesn’t happen again.
Well, I think there’s a lot of conversation around it now, certainly since February February 16th when you when you went live in in terms of evaluation and and evaluating the success of NC2A Championships.
I I have metrics in my head and I shared them some of them with Sam and and I asked her how she would get her data and she would be reliant on outside organizations to get that data and and even said hey you know I hope I hope some Slam helps us in terms of understanding this and and you know in terms of how it impacts our business and uh and we said yes we would share that information as as as best we can with as much as we can gather but it’s I mean it’s my hope that this would all be compiled and and and go public and and with their findings.
She’s she’s committed to that.
I I don’t I don’t think you can really hide from it.
I think it might take a while, right?
What are you going to do further to affect change since you’ve gone live and you’ve been vocal about it?
What else can you do?
Reach out to the board.
I don’t know.
Get encourage my peers to to be to lean in, right?
They’ve got to contact their elected representatives and tell them what they want, right?
I think I think it was very uh very top down on this one, right?
There was some there was some carpal launch there that they enjoyed.
I’m not sure they earned, but they enjoyed and they stepped into a void and they they they stirred it up.
They turned it upside down and now they have to own it.
So, okay, let me let me push back some.
There’s a everyone agreed in the beginning of this process that we needed change.
There was consensus around we need change seemingly and we have a lot of change.
So, you said even before I said, “Hey, let’s let’s let’s come on and talk about this on a podcast.” you said, “You know what?
I’m not offering up changes.
I’m not offering up solutions.” If I talked to my editorial staff, which I did, they’d say, you know, ask him about this, and they would say, you know, if he doesn’t if he he’s not offering a solution, then it’s it’s it pulls away from the article the the statement of being critical.
Is there is Yeah.
Is there anything, you know, is there, you know, do you have solutions?
People are afraid.
Is there anything that you, you know, there’s, is there one change that could be made that could make a difference in college swimming?
Have have you thought about that? you talked to your peers about it.
Have you heard potential changes from peers where it’s like, hey, this is an obvious option.
This is obvious thing we can do.
I think in the end it’s probably expanding the field and that’s hard to do, right?
It’s not it’s not anything the NC2A has been supportive of.
And you know, diving’s qualification hasn’t changed, right?
They’re bringing a lot of people at their own expense and a combined championship might be a good answer. for more more of a pageant might be might be an answer.
I think I think those things could probably impact a lot of people in a good way.
These were ideas these ideas have been on the table for a long time.
I’ve always wondered why we didn’t have a combined I’ve I’ve wondered why we didn’t go, you know, D3, D2, D1 and and in order all in one location and and was wasn’t a combined championships because that’s that is an old idea. just out of curiosity, you know, and when you’re in the hunt, when you’re in the thick of it, being there as media and working it is exhausting.
It’s like this is such a draining meat, which is part of the excitement.
You’re just you’re always just vibrating at this at 99%.
Would it make it easier on coaches if it were combined championship?
I speaking for myself, I think so.
There’s just like I didn’t want this change because it felt traditional, there are those that don’t want to separate the ch the championships because someone might overshadow someone else.
But I guarantee you if you have Gretchen Walsh on one event and then Leon Marshon in another event, you’re going to have some good engagement, right?
It it seems to me like if you’re going to make changes at the NC2A level at our championship, you would go with this this concept.
You would go with some things that you know you’re going to get consensus around.
I think a lot of there’s there is consensus around this concept because we heard it back in the 1990s and and and scale does you know a larger event does it brings more bodies.
It brings more attention.
Is there another obvious change that could be made?
I put I put I put you in the creative lab.
You you weren’t expecting that.
No, I wasn’t.
Why didn’t you lead me somewhere at all?
I will I will say this.
I will say this.
Took a lot of courage to speak up.
I’m glad you did.
Reading what you articulately shared was something that I’ve heard from a lot of a lot of corners of our sport.
I I love your CV.
It’s it’s staggering. your position in the sport is and your experience speaks volumes and and I like how plain and spoken you are.
Change is painful and I’m I’m it’s my hope that like all things in swimming, you know, when we go through pain, we’re better for it.
So, I’m I’m hoping something good comes out of this.
That’s that’s some old school stuff right there.
I’m hoping something positive comes out of it.
And and but it it is it is frustrating because I I do want as many opportunities for swimmers as possible.
This uh you know, people love college swimming, right?
So, it’s hard to watch a change.
It’s hard to watch the things that have been happening, right?
The the programs being dropped, the roster limits, and I and I’ve been a part of a program being dropped right in the middle of it, right?
A power four program.
So, I’ve been there, but I don’t think NC2A Championships is going to prevent any programs from getting dropped.
And we already we already we’re looking backwards in the rearview mirror.
UCLA got dropped within less than 10 years of winning a national title.
So, that is not going to prevent a program from getting dropped.
And I’ll say again, leadership needs to make careful, controlled decisions.
There was too much going on with this these changes, right?
If you’re going to get rid of the BFAs, don’t weaken the field, right?
Those are the people that would get the B final swims.
I don’t even understand the concept.
The dichotomy there doesn’t make sense and it wasn’t to me.
It wasn’t thought out.
So, get a proposal together.
Get impact from coaches, not industry experts, right?
I I think your biggest fans can be coaches and you know sometimes it’s worth protecting again we throw away opportunities and they never come back.
Mel, have we seen opportunities come back?
No.
So I’m really worried about these B finals.
Yeah.
If you’ve been Yeah.
If you’ve been around the sport a long time and opportunities pass us by.
We don’t we don’t get a second bite at the apple.
Second chance for a bite at the apple. we we’ve gone through culturally is something that’s happened and I would I would calculate it’s the last seven years and it’s been waning for a while just in the overall in the community as a whole where coaches lost a voice and they lost a seat at the table at at a lot of different in a lot of important rooms and it’s my hope that that’s changing.
It feels like it feels like coaches are flexing their muscles a little more certainly in the last 18 months.
Is that a fair statement?
I think it is a fair statement and I and actually think it probably was one of the driving points for me to be pretty vocal about this because it just felt incredulous that felt trampled on the the coaches have been in a tail spin with with name image likeness and all the changes that are happening.
If I talked to a lot of data nerds, they would say yes, college swimming as a whole could atrophy, but it’s not going to be the blood bath we think it is. some their belief in terms of the data is that we we could have some brand name changes and some realignment in terms of talent, but that swimming will tick on and it’s not going to be quite as bad.
Do you have any thoughts on that?
I agree.
I think swimming will endure.
That’s my hope.
There’s a lot of people that have had successful, impactful leadership positions and opportunities that they need to lean into.
But we’ll see.
This is entirely off topic, but I have to ask you since I got you sitting here.
We’re friends with with Kyle Sockwell.
We we like Sockwell.
We like what he’s doing in terms of of we need people with that much skin in the game and that much passion.
And he and he is trying to mirror what I think a lot of fans feel and put it on a bigger platform.
College swimming league is, you know, it’s it’s a it’s a it’s it’s bringing more attention to the fall lineup and more attention to the sport.
How do you feel about what he’s doing and and having having spent two seasons in the ISL and and seeing those event and that event production?
All for it.
It’s a fun it’s a fun lineup for a dual meet competition.
It’s fast moving.
If if skins are involved, it’s going to drive a lot of fan involvement.
And you know, you have relays that determine the skins.
You have just the the different point point opportunities within each race.
It’s a different kind of deal.
And why why not, right?
So, and his argument is, okay, we we can be great at NC2A championships or conference mates.
He goes, but we need to make we need to make it exciting longer and deeper into the season.
And that was a big motivation.
What I found interesting and creative is that and a lot of people poo pooed this.
A lot of people were like, I don’t understand why this is any different because it isn’t it just meats that we’re going to see already.
But what I did like about it was his he’s pretty savvy.
He’s working within a system.
He’s not changing too much, right?
Yep.
He’s he and he’s saying, “I’m going to put the I’m going to put the stress of it on my shoulders and bring more excitement to something that already exists.” And I and I and I I didn’t I thought he didn’t get enough credit for it.
Probably not.
No, because I think if you’re if you’ve been through the D1 funnel and through and you’ve walked through the fire, there’s anything that you understand, it’s that coaches live and breathe and die this.
You know, their their feet are on the deck first and they’re the last ones to leave.
So, I I felt like the drive came from that understanding.
And, you know, Kyle Kyle loves college swimming, right?
He understands he understands what’s going on with college swimming.
And, you know, we got to be part of his event that we did with NC State.
Arizona State’s putting on a clinic about how to get people to meets, right?
And where who’s taking those lessons and where are we passing them on?
So, well, I appreciate what you did on February 16th.
I appreciate you coming on.
And my follow-up is, hey, you know, you’re going to have an opinion after NC2A Championships, so we’re going to have to do a follow-up.
Sounds great.
All right.
So, something tells me that you’re not going to mince words.
We look forward to it.
Thanks for coming on
Trying to read this is
Is we well is giving me a me a headache.