Cielo, Schoeman Competing at Arizona Invite This Weekend

At the 2013 Arizona Invitational, co-hosted this coming weekend by Sun Devil Aquatics and the Mesa Aquatic Club, has a decent run of competition for its three age group separations: 10 & under, 11-12, and 13 & up. It’s attracted a few NCAA-level college swimmers from surrounding programs like Alana Pazevic and Michael Sheppard from Arizona, or Melanie Busch and Alex Coci from Arizona State.

South African Darian Townsend, who sat out his country’s World Championship Trials this year, will be at the meet as well, and will have some good middle-distance races against Arizona All-American undergrad Matt Barber.

Most of the big names from the area (Grevers, Smith, Magnuson) are taking a pass on the meet this season.

The exception should give a big, and very tense, showdown in the men’s 50 free, where South African Roland Schoeman and Brazilian Cesar Cielo will go head-to-head. The two have both qualified to swim the race for their respective countries at Worlds.

The 50 free will be Cielo’s only entry, and Schoeman will also race the 100 free and the 100 fly (he trains in Phoenix, so the meet is a little closer to home for him.)

The dynamic here is kind of interesting, because after Cielo tested positive for a banned substance in 2011, and was given just a warning by the Brazilian federation, Schoeman penned a critical editorial for The Swimmers Circle (our predecessor site) about the dangerous precedent it set.

Both men are professionals, however, so one wouldn’t imagine any visible issues on deck.

Schoeman (21.88) and Cielo (21.57) rank 7th and 3rd in the world thus far in 2013, respectively; Cielo is coming off of a minor knee surgery after the Olympics, but expects to be ready in time for Barcelona.

Full psych sheets for the meet are available here.

 

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SWIMGUY123
10 years ago

Thank you Phillip Johnson! I agree, we should definitely look back and let “water be one fine equalizer.” Interesting stuff pac12backer. But I agree with coachGB that it comes down to everyone’s an individual, and at some point you have to say screw the math. I think morozov is an example. It doesn’t matter if you’re short or tall. Feel for the water is more important than any of those things in my opinion and it’s something that can’t be taught.

PAC12BACKER
Reply to  SWIMGUY123
10 years ago

Feel for the water = stroke mechanics. Mental attitude & toughness is the one area that is very subjective between swimmers. Agree Morozov is fantastic and is an outlier of the typical elite freestyle sprinter. He can maintain a very high stroke rate with high efficiency and has incredible turns. I calculated at NCAA’s he gained an average of 0.20 sec per turn over the field in the 100 free final.

I’m also looking forward to the 50M results at Worlds.

SWIMGUY123
10 years ago

Hahaha I am not Josh Schneider. I just happen to be a fan just like I am of nearly everyone’s who’s shooting to be in the top 8 (Jones, Ervin, Adrian, Morozov, Bousquet, Schoeman, bovell, and Cielo) I just think josh is up there with those guys and goes unnoticed. He’s been an underdog while at Cincinnati and he came out on top. I hope he can do the same internationally still as an underdog and find some success. I like the his attitude and confidence. But yeah where’d you get that math/ equation from? I know Froude Number is big, but not sure what you’re referring to. Not saying it’s not legit, just very curious.

PAC12BACKER
Reply to  SWIMGUY123
10 years ago

Incompressible fluid dynamics. Drag Force = (1/2) x Density of fluid medium x Drag Coefficient x object frontal or max cross-sectional Area x Velocity of object in fluid^2.

Power required = Drag Force * Velocity = (1/2)(rho)(Cd)(A)(v^3)

The drag coefficient, Cd,is a function of Reynolds number and the shape of the object. The Area term and Cd are minimized with tall, lean swimmers. A tall, lean swimmer with the same strength and stroke mechanics as a shorter, thicker swimmer will be faster.

CoachGB
Reply to  PAC12BACKER
10 years ago

True there is all that involved but thank goodness for all the periodic unorthodox strokes and sizes and shapes of people. In one of the most individual sports their is and the importance of aditude that many have it is great that we have meets. Everyone should save this trail of comments on the 50 and look at it after Worlds. “Water is one fine equalizer”.

aswimfan
Reply to  SWIMGUY123
10 years ago

You are angry that people did not write Schneider as top 8 last year (which is true), but then you didn’t include Magnussen in your list of people shooting for top 8, although Magnussen was #7 last year and he is already #1 with 21.52 this year.

Talk about hypocrisy and lack of respect. lol.

Reply to  aswimfan
10 years ago

And I think being top 8 is not just about time..

Bousquet had a not so good year on 2012.. but would anyone really consider Josh a better 50 freestyler than bousquet??

When I´m talking about being top 8 is not just about last year´s time, but how good I see the guy.

And Manadou is much better than Josh, he is the only guy if he could deliver his best when needed would be a match for Manadou and Cielo

SWIMGUY123
10 years ago

How can you say that Schneider’s not top 8? We all have our opinions but he swam just as fast if not faster last year than all of those you mentioned (Sullivan, Schoeman, Bousquet). I would agree morozov has probably passed him and many others. But it ticks me off PAC12BACKER used him as an example of his stagnation due to to much muscle, etc. because he’s been getting better and better.

PAC12BACKER
Reply to  SWIMGUY123
10 years ago

Sorry to offend you Josh. I’m rooting for you to get into that top 8 this year. For any linear increase in velocity the drag is squared and the power required is cubed. That’s all.

aswimfan
Reply to  SWIMGUY123
10 years ago

Again, Scheider was not top 8 last year.

He may finsih this year top 8, but he was NOT top 8 last year.

Here’s the ranking last year:

1. Manaudou 21.34
2. Cielo 21.38
3. Jones 21.54
4. Ervin 21.60
5. Fratus 21.61
6. Adrian 21.68
7. Magnussen 21.74
8. Bovell 21.77

9. Schneider 21.78

So please stop saying he was top 8!!

SWIMGUY123
10 years ago

You’re kidding about Schneider right? He went 21.89 at trials last year and that was a big life time best. He might’ve even been faster. He’s a top 8 50 freestyler in the world but because he swims in the US, not many people would think of him because of Jones, Ervin, and Adrian. So please don’t use him as an example of your stagnation due to inflexibility, too much muscle, etc. Because he’s top 8 and making the Olympic final last year with his time from trials. Whew. Okay. I’m done ranting.

Rafael
Reply to  SWIMGUY123
10 years ago

Swimguy123

Even he being a top last year

I would not rate him being a top 8 50 freestyler.

He is not better than Schoeman/Sullivan and not even close to Bousquet..

And from this year.. I Think Morozov and Chiereginni may also have passed him..

Philip Johnson
Reply to  SWIMGUY123
10 years ago

Schneider actually went 21.78 to place fourth in a very deep field.

Philip Johnson
Reply to  Philip Johnson
10 years ago

Which by the way was faster than Schoeman, Sullivan, and Bousquet in 2012.

aswimfan
Reply to  SWIMGUY123
10 years ago

Well, Scheider was not top 8 last year.

Scheider’s time last year was 9th, right behind Magnussen at 8th.

PAC12BACKER
10 years ago

Schoemen is not too old for a 50. He’s just not increasing his power and therefore has stallled out. The 50 LCM is strictly an anaerobic event requiring stroke mechanics, power, and start/break-out. The rub: Increasing strength alone without careful attention to your stroke, flexibility, and frontal area drag increase due to increased muscle volume can also cause stagnation. Example, Josh Schneider.

Tea
10 years ago

Always hard for me to predict with Cullen Jones. Leading up to 2012, it seemed like he was doing a lot of good work with his charity, but not putting up any impressive times. I was surprised he made it onto the Olympic squad at all – but 2 individual events and the first US medal in the 50 since Gary Hall is hard to dispute. I don’t see him making the US roster this season, but I’ve underestimated him before.

Wonder if there’s any chance of Grevers doing the 50 free?

Philip Johnson
10 years ago

I won’t do my full predictions, but I think the top three spots will be between Manaudou, Cielo, and Adrian with Magnussen and Morozov and possibly Jones on the outside medals. Question is, can Magnussen and Morozov swim when it matters? Can Manaudou duplicate that kind of swim with pressure on him as the favorite? Adrian has yet to show what he has on the 50. Cielo is a proven swimmer that steps up when it matters and no one has better experience than him. He is on a mission of redemption.

Anotherswimfan
10 years ago

My prediction:
1. Manaudou
He’s the most skilled sprinter. Period.
2. Cielo
Very experienced, very talented. The 50 free is his only event.
3. Bousquet
Fred (almost) always delivers when it counts. Again, very experienced and talented. If he plays it safe and won’t cruise the heats and semi’s I give him a good chance to medal.
4. Adrian
He’s should be capable to medal. But with a number of other events (100m free, relays) I’m giving him less chance too medal than the three above.
5. Jones
Very strong, but quite precarious.
6. Morozov
Probably the biggest sprinting talent there is right now. But less experienced and… Read more »

aswimfan
Reply to  Anotherswimfan
10 years ago

not to nitpick, but 50 free is not Cielo’s only event.
He WILL swim 50 fly as well.

And there’s also always a chance he’ll swim in the relays.

Rafael
Reply to  aswimfan
10 years ago

If Cielo swim the relays, it will be the 4×100 free.. the Medley I would be 100% sure that will be Chiereginni the free leg..

SwimFanFinland
Reply to  Anotherswimfan
10 years ago

I agree with you that swimming is becoming a sport in which only tall and big swimmers are in with a chance of success. still, I haven’t figured out yet is it longer or shorter distances where shorter athletes have better chances.

At the moment I would go with shorter ones. Considering how beautifully Morozov is able to raise on the wave. However, it is difficult to keep up with that for a long. That is also why he seems to be better at short-course competitions since a distance to swim is cut even more due to a turn.

This is not so important for big guys and girls with their long strokes.

About Braden Keith

Braden Keith

Braden Keith is the Editor-in-Chief and a co-founder/co-owner of SwimSwam.com. He first got his feet wet by building The Swimmers' Circle beginning in January 2010, and now comes to SwimSwam to use that experience and help build a new leader in the sport of swimming. Aside from his life on the InterWet, …

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