Two of the most captivating 12-year old swimmers in history have both rolled through the age group in the last year, and it’s time for a quick update on how NCAP’s National Age Group Record breaker Cassidy Bayer and Kansas National Age Group Record demolisher Michael Andrew are swimming this fall.
Bayer raced this weekend at the Rockville-Montgomery hosted National Age Group Challenge meet. With NCAP (formerly Curl-Burke) likely beginning to build into some heavy yardage, now well into the swing of their season, the 13-year old Bayer looks phenomenal. At this weekend’s meet, her first of the season, she swam a 24.30 in the 50 free, a 2:03.88 in the 200 fly, and a shocking 55.30 in the 100 yard fly.
A 55.30 is an amazing time for a 13-year old if it comes at the end of a season. Coming this early in the year, it’s shockingly good (only 7 swimmers of the same age have been better than that in the last decade, period). She’s still a long way from the 53′s that Felicia Lee was going at this age, but this is a great start to her season.
Recall that this summer, Bayer broke all three 11-12 National Age Group butterfly records in long course. Read all about her long course exploits here.
This whole meet was stocked with fantastic results, showing just how much quality age group talent is concentrated in the Potomac Valley. Full results are not yet available online, but just picking-and-choosing a few events:
- Rockville-Montgomery 12-year old Sanjay Wijesekera already went a 1:52.0 in the 200 free, a time already better than all but one swimmer was through October and November last year – nationwide.
- The York YMCA’s Kacey Oberlander won the 14-year old girls’ 100 backstroke in 56.38.
- NCAP 14-year old Brandon Fabian won the 14-year old boys’ 50 freestyle in 22.61.
Thank you for the updates about these young swimmers. It’s cool to follow their careers.
Great story about the pool for Michael Andrew! And very interesting training methods! His father must really believe in him to build a pool at home. It reminds me our pole vault french olympic champion Renaud Lavillenie who loves so much his sport that he even jumps in his garden.
Cassidy Bayer is clearly the future big american star on butterfly. And I agree, it’s incredible to see the level of swimming in the Potomac Valley. They build 1 or 2 young champions every year. Katie Ledecky is obviously the icon of the moment. Try to follow Isabella Rongione too. I think she will make big damages on freestyle in the months to come. And she will be like Michael Andrew in Minneapolis next weekend.
Male gymnasts spend many years building up their shoulder strength before rings. Girls never do them. They do bars prep via handstands strap hangs various grips & controlled swing.
Whilst it seems a good idea for swimmers & one that I have seen it also leads to injuries in much more experienced swimmers especially with wet hands & uncontrolled shoulder movement plus falls.
However I have met parents who have very good ideas . Good luck with it all.
1. Michael and Michaela really?
2. I’ve seen Michael Andrews swim he is going to burn out, he is too sprint based. Even if he does burn out he seems to be a damn good kicker in football
3. Cassidy Bayer is fast and will be a star
4. (in response to bobo Gigi) I see rongione as the next Kate Ziegler, they are from the same club, that team just kills you so they have a lot of fast kids but they have no mechanics or longevity.
If you can’t tell I’m a PVS guy
Kate Zeigler no longevity? 2 Olympic Teams is pretty damn good and the model of longevity all should try and mimic
Great Eddie Reese says that “burnout happens when you stop improving” and I believe in that – it has little to do with swimming mileage. It does not matter whether Andrews is sprint oriented or not, as long as he is getting better and enjoying success, there will be no burn-out. That said, I understand what you mean: at some point there will be a year or two (very soon) with no improvements or even swimming slower. How he and his family handle that is important. I am sure they are well aware and prepared.
If Rongione is the next Kate Zeigler I think that would be considered a tremendous success. How many people have had as great a career as Kate? Let’s keep some perspective.
I wish Isabella Rongione the career Kate Ziegler has had. 2 times 800 free/1500 free world champion in 2005 and 2007. One of the best races of all time against Laure Manaudou in Melbourne in 2007 in the 800 free. The same year an incredible and unfortunately perhaps the most underrated world record in the 1500 free in textile and which hasn’t be broken since despite the magical suits. One silver medal in the 1500 free and one bronze medal in the 800 free at the world championships in 2011. She hasn’t had the success she deserved at the olympic games but overall that’s what I call a great career.
15.42.54! Kate Ziegler has made alone this fantastic world record in the 1500 free which hasn’t been broken since despite the magical suits. Katie Ledecky will probably break it very quickly but this world record is a legendary world record.
How does seeing MA swim assure you that he will burnout? Too sprint based, care to elaborate? I am not condoning everything this family does, but you might want to read up on the training style before you comment on a swimmer burning out for being “too sprint oriented.” I too have seen him swim, training style has nothing to do with his ceiling. His ceiling is a matter of mechanics. Every swimmer has some flaws and if his are worked out, the ceiling goes higher. Fast growth can equal ROM and it appears there appeared to be a little issue with that (in my humble opinion) this past spring at Sectionals and this summer at zones. If that can be hammered out, the ceiling goes even higher.
The quote from Eddie Reese certainly rings true, It is also a matter of personality and desire as he grows older.
I can tell you from personal experience, the training that is recommended by the Dr. (Rushall) they are consulting is pretty intense. I have been experimenting with ultra-short race pace training (and other components I feel are necessary/I want to try at the age group level) and I have seen big differences in my most attentive/detail oriented swimmers.
Besides, volume can always increase. You cannot go back and undo hundreds and thousands of meters in imperfect stroke technique that is bad for the shoulders. Not without significant time off or surgery or both.
No mechanics or longevity is a pretty strong charge for a club as successful as the fish, flach, for instance, went there and is now at South Carolina and is super fast and still improving
75%+ of kids in any age group in any club in the country have poor mechanics.
Just because you have seen Michael Andrew swim, you can say
he will burn out? C’mon. This kid will never burn out. He and his father
are willing to go out side of the box to train. They don’t follow the norm of
swimming 10,000 yds a day. They do research and trial to see what works for him. He will be at Rio in 2016. Then you will see him swim again!
Here it is December 2012. Do you still feel the same way about Michael Andrew? Look at his improvements! I dont know about you but I am amazed. 49.8 100 fly, 57.4 100 breast, 20.9 50 free. 154. 200 im. Immense improvements have been made already and its only December. Wow just Wow!
I just think Kate never reached her full potential
Almost no one ever does.
She got sick during both Olympics, which didn’t help. ‘but she also had some burnout issues.
I hope Rongione, Bayer, Andrews have very successful careers But Coach Erik comment “Besides, volume can always increase.” does make me wonder. It’s well know that the Fish swimmers do 25 + hours a week for the long course season. How do you increase from there? And can you when you are in college?
Bayer and Andrews don’t seem to have that future volume issue
Correction 24 hours for the week. The site won’t let me modify my previous post.
I seem to have annoyed some people, both those kids though (not Bayer) seem to be kind of jerks though just from seeing them at meets
Could anyone point me in the direction of information on MA’s training? Is it at all like the stuff that Coley Stickles did at Lake Oswego?
http://coachsci.sdsu.edu/swim/bullets/energy39.pdf
Keep in mind the paper is directed at senior level and above training. It is recommended to age groupers and Rushall does say there maybe room in an age groupers training for both race pace and slower swimming.
I don’t agree with all of it (doesn’t believe in kick sets), all I know is my most attentive swimmers are closing races better than ever, stringing the smaller components from practice (25s for 100s, 50s for 200/500) together in races.
It is not possible to do race pace training for younger age groups and still work on stroke technique. They cannot handle that and too many things to work on. So, there is no “maybe” there. Indie Coach talks about working with MA on stroke technique all the time – but how do you do that at the race pace? That does not make sense. Combination of race pace and slow training seams like absolutely necessary since no swimmer has perfect technique.
Remember when we talk about race pace, the 100 race pace is different to 200 race pace. So for the breastroke the technique is different for both distances and it’s all about timing so it is not possible to train and work on technique slowly as the timing will be way off. We make corrections at the pace we train at and see no scientific value/need for slow swimming . What track athlete runs marathons so he can be fast over 100 meters .
This is how we train, it is fun, exciting and it works for us .
Thanks. I recognize a lot of concepts of Terry Laughlin and Dave Salo in the explanation of your approach.
Indiecoach: “First they ignore you. Then they ridicule you Then they fight you. Then you win” . I am a personal trainer and a former swimmer whose career was cut short by an overuse injury. I think that you and Michael are going to revolutionize the sport. My mentor was an Olympic strength and conditioning coach (USA Bobsled) and NBA (NJ Nets), and he taught me that most swim coaches TOTALLY overtrain their athletes. No wonder that so many burnout or quit due to injuries. I remember the days when people like Shirley Babashoff used to swim 20,000 meters a day. Then years later Tracy Caulkins came along and was “only” doing about 12,000 yards and people started to see the light. I think Phelps could have been even faster! Your race based training makes a lot of sense to me. A 13yr old going 58.15 100 Breast! Wow– keep up the great work and I can’t wait to see what you and Michael achieve in the future.
Actually there are times when you can work on certain things. This training type calls for slower or “irrelevant training” in between sets of race pace. You wouldn’t swim like crap their, would you? Teaching kids the concepts of sculling is something that is, outside of actually swimming a stroke and of benefit. Understanding propulsion is important.
Yes you can work on technique at race pace as an age grouper, not the most green of age groupers but at a certain point and a swimmer with “feel” can make such adjustments. You won’t see them immediately, but they do happen. I know because I have such an age grouper. I think we need to clear up our definition of “age grouper”, because just 2 years ago Todd Schmitz won USA Swimming’s Age Group Coach of the Year with 14 year old Missy Franklin success as his main accolade (among others I’m sure). We can’t confuse Michael Andrew with the 8 year old kid learning how to swim breaststroke for the first time.
Great post
Bayer’s medley relay splits were 24.5 (50) and 54.4 (100) wow!
It’s fascinating to me how Andrews, Bayer and Rongione’s training/meet strategies are so different. Andrews training the new-sprint techniques and big meets when he was at the top of his age group; Rongione doing mega distance (14,000 in one practice…see her tweets) and getting to the national decks early; and Bayer going low yardage with no national decks yet.
Interesting!
“when you love what you do and you know you are loved you can enjoy swimming forever” sprinter or not. As long as Michael doesn’t break my 35-39 year old age group records I wish him an awesome healthy long career!
Josh Davis
NBD as far as MA’s training goes , everything he does is race specific . This means when he trains for the 100 free he does it at the pace that he will race it , obviously it is impossible to swim 3 lengths or 4 lengths holding his 100 race pace so we break it down and swim 25s at the race pace with short rest intervals , when he fails we take a longer rest so he is ready to go again . For 200s we will swim 75s and 50s obviously holding 200 pace .
We work on stroke mechanics all the time as we believe technique is the most important aspect . The only kicking he does is underwater kick sets , we believe the kick in the stroke is more for balance than for propulsion and a big kick uses a lot of energy as well as creating more drag .
We work with Dr Brent Rushall ,you can google him and read his science journals and you’ll get a far better idea of what we are about .
Your training seems legit. However what about the whole team experience your kids are missing? I personally believe there’s value in that. There’s a lot to be learned, even from your slower teammates. Just curious ….
Yes we do miss the team experience but we try to make up for that , we had Michael play football this season to be involved in a team . Sure its not quite the same but he had a blast and he was a huge asset to the team in his kicking role , he has an incredible boot on him . His training partner is his sister and she is not serious at all so she keeps practices pretty lighthearted .
Our training is so different to any teams around that michael wouldn’t feel comfortable being involved with another team . It really is Michaels decision as we discuss everything we do together as well as with Dr Rushall and if he wasn’t fully committed then what we do wouldn’t work .
We do have athletes who join us from time to time so there is a slight team feel , then when we lived in SD we did have a small team so they have had that experience .
Isabella Rongione has already swum good times. At the end of October she has swum 4.50.21 in the 500 free, 9.54.58 in the 1000 free and 4.22.67 in the 400 IM. Not bad so early in the season. It will be very interesting to watch her in Minneapolis for example against Chloe Sutton, Ashley Steenvorden or Becca Mann in the 1650 free.
I’ve seen Rongione swim once a year since she was 10 and she is amazing. I saw her swim the 400 free this summer and it was like she was shot out from a slingshot. Looked like she was sprinting a 50 but never slowed down. She’s the real deal. I had to prep my daugher (who has AAAA times) prior to the races where she swam against her just so she wasn’t shell shocked.
Beata nelson (who i believe is still 14) swam a 53.73 tonight in her 100 back at the wisconsin state meet, which overall was a very fast meet. (SHES A FRESHMAN). Might as well add her to the list of next generation superstars.
Thank you for the news. If France is a freestyle industry USA is a backstroke industry which works very well. You talk about Beata Nelson. In the young backstrokers on the women’s side you also have Kathleen Baker, Keaton Blovad, Courtney Mykkanen, Claire Adams, Kaitlin Harty or Taylor Garcia who will want to replace in the next years the very old Missy Franklin, Rachel Bootsma, Kylie Stewart, Elizabeth Pelton, Elizabeth Beisel, Cindy Tran or Olivia Smoliga. There’s an incredible depth.
Oh and she anchored her 200 free relay in 22.03, any college team would kill for someone with that speed.
Andrew @ 20.94 in the C final at GP. 13-14 nag is a 20.8… i say andrew gets under 20 as a 14 year old… 20.94 is disgusting fast. that gets top 3 at most hs state meets. that might even be a JR time… at 13!!!
Thank you for the news. I don’t read the Finals-C results very often. With the 45.34 from Ryan Murphy I think it’s perhaps the most impressive time of the weekend in USA. It’s incredible.
I know people suggest that it’s training, but this family is different from most swimming families. Traveling so far for meets all around the country you have to wonder….why? Why they can say to “compete”, it seems swimming consumes the family, which makes you feel sorry for ALL the kids…even though they keep it “lighthearted”. The best thing this family could do would be to take a step back and swim for the love of swimming in their own region …but when you travel to meet after meet in different states all over the US, you wonder, is this for the kid or the parents……and especially wondering how a kid can drop time meet after meet….makes you question with foreign parents if “supplements” aren’t being utilized to help him gain muscle mass sooner in order to compete at a level to meet his father’s expectations. Should be interesting to see where this kid is in 5 years.
Good luck to Michael.
ken b – from what I know, I can give the following to assuage your concerns: Michael played football this fall, and only swam about 1 meet in the last 2 months or so…so to say that swimming consumes the family more than any other club would be a stretch.
Also, saw Michael at Trials…if he’s using supplements to increase muscle mass, then he’s doing something wrong, because he’s built like you would expect a 13-year old to be built, just very tall.
Ken B– Your comment about Michael using “supplements” to achieve muscle was was unfair and unkind. I do believe Michael has inherited great attributes from his athletic parents, and his training techniques and nutrition are cutting edge, but to imply that he is using any kind of performance enhancing drugs is unsportsmanlike, unless you have some kind of proof. And the “foreign” comment– what, you think Americans don’t use performance enhancing drugs? Ever heard of Lance Armstrong, or the NFL?
It appears to me that Michael and his dad are having fun. When I swam, I was so excited to travel and swim in new pools, and against new competition. I always swam my best at travel meets. And I think that Michael will need to travel some to find competition against faster (usually older!) swimmers.
It would be great if Indiecoach had a small team, with several assistants, so he could focus on Michael and the other coaches could work with other swimmers using the same training techniques. That way Michael could get the full team experience, which is invaluable. I grew up with kids who swam with Olympic gold medalist Rick Carey at Badger, and he did much of his training in a crowded 6 lane 25 yard pool where they gave him his own coach and his own lane, so I know it can be done. If I lived near Indiecoach and he wanted to hire assistants, I’d apply! If Michael continues on this path– and I am fully rooting for him– his dad will get a lot of interest and coaching offers.
To me, the young age groupers who are grinding out 2 a days with 10s of thousands of yards per week are the ones I worry about, in terms of burnount, injuries, and leading unbalanced lives. I bet Michael is having more fun than a lot of those kids.
I say GO MICHAEL!!! Keep up the good work INDIECOACH!!!
Ken I’m just guessing that you are not a parent ,you don’t know who we are and you’ve never even seen Michael .To even suggest we would give our kids ” supplements” ( drugs right) what because were foreign ,WOW . So you don’t think the correct form of training can have an athlete dropping time meet after meet ?
We do swim in our own region but Michael loves swimming in bigger meets also so for that we have to travel. Not sure if we are that different from most swimming families in that we love our kids and want to give them the very best we can . I am privileged to be able to train my own children and spend that extra close time with them ,surely most parents would love that .Our kids are a gift to us and as long as they love swimming we will strive for excellence so yes it will be interesting to see where Michael is in 5 years .
Ken I would suggest you get to know someone first before you pass judgement as it’s not cool especially the ” supplement ” comment .