As broken by Craig Lord at SwimNews.com, Russian federation president Vladimir Salnikov released a statement on the federation’s website telling his constituency that FINA will consider easing the underwater rules on the starts of all breaststroke races. We heard similar reports on deck at this past weekend’s SEC Championship meet, but Salnikov’s remarks seem to confirm that at least there is consideration being given.
The rule would allow unlimited dolphin kicks for the first 15 meters, but only off of the starting block where the splash is most preventative of the officials’ view. This would be an alternative to installing underwater monitoring cameras, which would seem to make this newest proposal moot.
Current rules only allow one kick, however as we saw with Cameron van der Burgh and many others at the Olympics, the rule is difficult to enforce on the starting end. It was called at least once at the SEC Championships, though the specific example easily recalled is on the breaststroke leg of an IM, meaning the view was unimpeded by the athlete’s entry into the pool.
It would seem, by the 15 meter rule, as there would be an upper limit on the number of dolphin kicks that can be fit into 15 meters when a pullout is accounted for. Salnikov, in his statements, expected 2-3 would be the maximum plausible with the rules change. That is, of course, only if doing an actual pullout is somehow enforced by the new rules. If it is not, then the pullout on the start would likely disappear altogether.
Remember now that there is no 15-meter rule on breaststroke races, period. This change would even the field on the powerful underwater breaststrokers, like Breeja Larson, who are already almost at 15 meters even while doing a standard, legal pullout off of the blocks.
Is this a joke? There will be no underwater pullouts from now on, You would simply dive in and dolphin kick to the 15 meter mark as thats got to be a lot faster than all the drag created from doing an underwater pullout. Tom Shields would be the fastest man in the 50 of all four strokes in NCAA swimming this year with this rule I bet
But then you’d have to do a pull-out off any turns?
The language does not seem to be tight enough on this yet, but if this ends up meaning unlimited dolphin kicks to 15m off the blocks then…oof.
They keep on bastardizing the breaststroke!
Wait a second…wha?
“The rule would allow unlimited dolphin kicks for the first 15 meters, but only off of the starting block ” vs “Salnikov, in his statements, expected 2-3 (dolphin kicks) would be the maximum.”
Both seem fairly horrible, IMO. The first is completely new skill and the second is worthless.
Steve – he was saying that his perception would be that if someone were doing a pullout still, they’d be hard pressed to fit in more than 2-3.
Anyone with half a brain and decent underwaters will do fly kick to 15 meters and then wrap it up with a pullout, practically bringing them to the end of the pool without swimming a single stroke of breaststroke. This rule hurts traditional breastrokers, those swimmers with likely the worst fly underwaters, the most. As a breaststroker, I’d rather go up against a cheater under the current rules than an underwater specialist with this rumored rule.
I suspect that any required pullout on the start will go away too if they approve this rule. It would only be a matter of time. This rule would really hurt the US, with the focus on SCY in high school and college.
I respectfully disagree with Mr. Salnikov. We have the video technology to clearly watch starts and turns. If swimmers know that they are being watched and can be disqualified for an illegal pullout–THEY WON’T CHEAT.
Seems to me that FINA has the whole thing backwards….first a breaststroker in the 04 Olympics does a fly kick and then they “fix it” by allowing a fly kick….now breaststrokers are doing 2 fly kicks and they “fix it” by allowing unlimited number off the start up to the 15 meter mark (and why would anyone do a pullout under those circumstances)…..all of this because officials can’t see the violations off the start? Shouldn’t we fix the “problem” not legalize the infraction? Could it be because it’s cheaper to allow unlimited fly kicks versus installing video cameras?
Is this a joke? This is very very very stupid
There goes FINA again taking the easy way out in officiating as they always have. This would destroy a stroke and the sport will look ridiculous. Bad enough they came up with the new high dive and synchro diving.
Why all these excuses to allow cheating in breastroke by legalizing the cheat? I really don’t get how they continue to make rule changes to breaststroke that take away from what the stroke really is, all the while we have a backstroke flip turn rule that DQ’s kids when the do a horribly slow turn by turning over too early and gliding. Seems like there is no consistency. We DQ bad technique, but change the rules on breaststroke to make it faster and limit the affect true breaststokers have. Very sad if they do this rule change.
This is a direct result of the South African WR breaker, which REALLY ticked off the officiating community. The issue with UW cameras is that we could only manage to use them at the highest level meets. That would leave nearly all competitions open for continued abuse of this rule. Sad state of affairs imo
Just saw an interesting thought on twitter. Would they still require separation of hands first? Would at least minimize the ability to just kick to 15.
Denis pankratov.
Perhaps Mr. Pankratov will make a comeback (as a breaststroker) if the rule change goes ahead!
Agree with Newswim… they’re not fixing anything, just bastardizing a stroke more and more. The first “fix” was kind of understandable, since it was almost a natural part of the undulation of the body while performing the pullout and difficult to avoid “in the heat of the moment”.
But seriously, it’s not like it was the differencemaker in VanDerBurgh’s swim. He usually gains a slight lead by 15 not because of the extra dolphin kicks but because he does his dolphin kick completely separately of the pullout. That’s how he “cheats”, but the small dolphin kicks after the entry hardly make a difference in speed, since the velocity is at its highest right then
When you say a dolphin kick will bastardize breaststroke, you do realize breaststroke and butterfly were originally one stroke, and there was a dolphin kick with the stroke at that time…right?
Pretty sure you’re wrong, Bill. I don’t think a dolphin kick was ever legal in breaststroke. Yes, butterfly evolved from breaststroke, but incorporating the dolphin kick came after butterfly became a separate stroke.
C’mon, really? The first dolphin kick had no place in the pullout. So, all these kids that walk around like penguins (feet pointing out) that always had ‘their stroke’ no longer will.
I always appreciated that when you swam, you could always compare yourself directly with history. Minimal technology or rule changes meant that the sport changed very little in decades. Bring in suits, dolphin kicks etc and the game changes A LOT.
I respect, revere and am still in awe of Mr. Salnikov’s accomplishments in the pool and for his continuing support of the sport, but maybe he should stick to rules for the 400 to 1500.
I could really care less what the breaststrokers do in their own events, but this would effect the Kind of All Events, the 400 IM, and that would be a crying shame … not to mention create a lot of crying as people tried to SDK to the 15M mark after the backstroke turn.
In all seriousness, FINA needs to grow a pair, adopt technology and give officials support to make calls. They put the genie back in the bottle with tech suits; let’s put it back in with a pre-Kitajima breaststroke pullout rule.
I meant of “King” of all events … but, it is “kind” of like all events rolled into one.
This story was first reported on The Onion.
There were discussions about this at a meeting in Colorado Springs earlier this year. FINA felt it was too cost prohibitive to police it, and it sounds as though it’s moving forward. The coach I spoke to said it could be in place as early as September 1 in some places. The kicks DO require the separation of the hands. And it’s only off the start, as you previously mentioned. I suppose the thought process–if you feel you can’t police it, you might as well negate the advantage for those doing it (although, at the expense of the stroke technique). I had my kids try it in the water a couple weeks ago, just to get their opinions–they were baffled by how different it was.
Could this be that Salnikov is under impression that breaststroke has a 15 meter rule just like other strokes. So he is assuming you would have to pop up at the 15 meter mark. This kind of ignorance wouldn’t surprise me!
It’s possible…but I’d imagine that the president of a federation, especially one with as accomplished of a swimming career as him, probably is aware of the current rules.
Salnikov is also a member of the FINA Technical Swim Committee which drafted the new rule that will be presented at the FINA Congress in Barcelona in July.
What’s next? Legalizing flippers for all events? Oh hell, bring on the jet-skis!
IS THIS EVEN SERIOUS??????
OMG..
All breast records will be demolished… no.. make that nuked, destroyed, wrecked, shattered…by not only one or two swimmers, but countless breaststrokers.
The joke of the wondersuits will be nothing compared to this madness of FINA.
This would change the history of breaststroke and eliminate all current records. (As mentioned above)
I can see the disadvantage now within the starts when the top elite swim, but it would be a shame to make this change instead of improving the current stroke.
The breast stroke is the one stroke which is the most different and gives the advantage to other swimmers with this stroke as their favourite.
Please dont!
Moller
VI39swim – Denmark
Ooooh, bad idea, Vlad.
Why not just eliminate the breaststroke entirely, except as a component of the IM and medley relays. Wait, check that, it is nice to be able to take a little nap during the 200 breast before the next event. Ok, leave it in.
What is FINA’s problem?! Why are we “accommodating” what is easy, instead of what is right. This will kill all former records for breaststroke events-similar to a stupid decision FINA made a couple of years ago with suits. Why doesn’t the GOVERNING body actually start governing things and stop accommodating everyone with a complaint about anything. Make some rules and ENFORCE them, stop modifying them to try and please everyone.
this has to be the worst possible way to resolve the dolphin kicks in the pull out. if they were to be crazy enough to pass this rule, who says within the next year swimmers will start doing 2-6 dolphin kicks off EVERY wall. Then FINA will sink to the ultimate low and allow unlimited dolphin kicks off every wall. if this were to happen it would just be a continuous pattern of FINA giving in too cheaters and the stroke will be runined. smh….
Sounds like fun! I love innovation. You people sound like old fuddy duddies
There is a difference between innovation and bastardization. One pays respect to the integrity of the stroke and it’s core make-up. One simply makes changes to avoid dealing with difficulties. As a swim coach, I remind my athletes on a regular basis that our focus and intent must be to EMBRACE rather than avoid adversity, as that is the only place true success can be found. Not exactly consistent with the message FINA would be (once again) sending with this rule change.
who says it is easier to get away with from a turn than from a start?! haha. we even have people adding dolphin kicks to the finish now! I say we just make one race. get rid of all four strokes entirely and make it a dolphin kick race. let people swim however the hell they want to when they come up for air… that’ll solve it.
If the “too expensive, too hard to enforce” excuse wins, does that put drug testing next on the chopping block????
Seriously, illegal dolphin kicks happen into and off every wall, even in between, and RARELY GET CALLED.
I say video to eliminate the cheaters at the top, the true breastrokers will rise up. Otherwise, the stroke is history.
It’s all in the hips!
How about, instead of allowing the unlimited kicks they do the opposite and eliminate the dolphin kick. That would make it easier for officials. What they should be talking about when it comes to Breaststroke is the elbow recovery rule. That is rarely called at the age group level.
Just leave rules as they are and use existing cameras to DQ cheaters, like van der Burgh, after race is completed. If he was DQ-ed after the race and stripped of the gold, we would not have to talk about this.
I agree. It shouldn’t happen. Breaststrokers will no longer win the breaststroke. it will be won by those with good butterfly skills. Breaststoke should be left the way it is. It is a very technical stroke and only those that are technically very correct ever do well at it. Why make it easier on the rest. Leave Breaststroke as Breaststroke.